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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Windows ME is somewhat okay in 64MB if you disable PCHealth Monitor, ActiveDesktop and System Restore. WDM Drivers for ME still make it slower than Win98SE with VxD driver set in old hardware sets.
Win2k is definitely a no go for everyday use in 64MB of RAM, at least in it's retail form. You have practically NLite it if you want to fit it in 64MB of ram, and doing that you basically end with a sort of Windows Fundamentals for PCs in the very minimal configuration. And that's without counting that the driverset for the hardware of the era is as best subpar than even its WDM ME counterparts.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:27 pm 
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Overdoze wrote:
Got any reliable sources for that?

Several of Microsoft's antitrust documents suggest this, but the names shift around a lot. "Asteroid" for example seems to have been rolled partially into Windows 2000 SP1 and partially into Windows XP.

Windows NT 5.0 - Windows 2000
Windows NT "Asteroid" -> Windows 2000 SP1
Windows NT "NepTune" -> Neptune, Odyssey -> Whistler, Blackcomb
Windows NT "Triton" -> Odyssey -> Blackcomb

This above is largely based on conjecture that "NepTune" (originally thought of as a consumer and pro release) became both the NT5-derived consumer-only "Neptune" and the consumer/pro "Odyssey" meant to succeed it, in fact few sources suggest Neptune and Odyssey were counterparts, rather that Odyssey was a successor to Neptune. Neptune became "Whistler" (which morphed back into a consumer/pro release) and Odyssey became "Blackcomb" - the major "NT6" release (originally known as "Millennium" in 1998 before the "Millennium" name became used for the final version of Windows 9x). Triton was NepTune's successor, and thus became Odyssey/Blackcomb.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:14 pm 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
in fact few sources suggest Neptune and Odyssey were counterparts,

Which sources exactly?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Tech journals claimed that back in 2000, like this report by Paul Thurrott for instance:
MICROSOFT HAS CANCELLED the previously separate "Neptune" and "Odyssey" projects, melding the two into a cohesive strategy for the future of Windows 2000. "Neptune," as you may know, was to be the next consumer version of Windows after Millennium, and the first to be based on Windows 2000. And "Odyssey" was the previous codename for the next version of Windows 2000 for businesses. My sources tell me that the consumer version of Neptune became a black hole when all the features that were cut from Millennium (Windows 98 Third Edition, due this summer) were simply re-tagged as Neptune features. And since Neptune and Odyssey would be based on the same code-base anyway, it made sense to combine them into a single project, in the same way that Windows 2000 Professional and Server were tested together. What's the codename for this revamped next-generation version of Windows 2000 that will come in business and consumer flavors, you ask? It's called "Whistler." You heard it here first.


Or this one from BetaNews:
BetaNews wrote:
While Neptune development continued, Microsoft was also planning the next business Windows, codenamed Odyssey. Odyssey was to succeed Windows 2000 for the business environment and contain the same code-base as Neptune.


When I think of it, do we even have any actual evidence that Odyssey was supposed to be a successor and not a counterpart of Neptune? As far as I know, there is this one document that mentions "Odyssey/NT6", but that really seems to mean Odyssey or NT6, instead of mentioning two names for the same thing.

I would rather be interested in sources about the Millennium thing. This is the first time I am hearing of this.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:39 pm 
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Odyssey is only mentioned directly by name in a single document, the one discussing Windows 2000 launch and Me/Whistler plans from February 2000 I believe.

AlphaBeta wrote:
As far as I know, there is this one document that mentions "Odyssey/NT6", but that really seems to mean Odyssey or NT6, instead of mentioning two names for the same thing.


It's actually "Neptune/NT6", mentioned in two documents. See this topic.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:55 pm 
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- AlphaBeta: We have the Anti-Trust documents saying NepTune would be the successor to Windows 2000.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Also here, Thurrott claimed Odyssey was NT 6:
Image .

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:21 pm 
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Overdoze: Oh, sorry. I stand corrected. :P

Battler: Nobody disputes that. See that both quotes do say that Neptune and Odyssey would be based on the same codebase. My question was whether there were any sources that claim that Odyssey would be a successor of Neptune.

Let's get back to my forward slash argument. "Neptune/NT6" could refer to two teams, with Neptune team doing the consumer part and NT6 team doing the business part. Considering that an internal presentation also mentions that the consumer/business split was planned for NT6, I think this is quite feasible. I wouldn't be surprised if this NT6 project ended up getting renamed to Odyssey after NT5 had been renamed to Windows 2000 (after all, the Office memo predates the rename by a good few months).

However, as I said in my previous post, this could just as easily refer to a single project that was simply known as both "Neptune" and "NT6".

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:44 pm 
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AlphaBeta: I tend to believe tech journals on things like this but they're still not a 100% accurate source.

Battler: I said few because I hadn't looked at all the sources and didn't want to make a statement like "none" or anything. The reference to "Odyssey" being the Win2K successor and NT6 (and also having a Home edition for consumers) matches up with my research, being the new name for NT "NepTune".

AlphaBeta, Battler, Overdoze: What I am saying is that the "NepTune" name as it was used in 1997 means something different than "Neptune" in 1999. The old "NepTune" seems to refer to NT6, a successor to Windows "Asteroid" (NT5.1) which is a successor to Windows 2000 (NT5). Refer to page 32 of PX07297 (http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon ... X07297.pdf). However, the Windows NT "NepTune" name used to refer to the Itanium-supporting version of Windows with Home ("Entry-Level" and "Standard") and Professional ("High-End") editions, along with the similar "Triton" release became Odyssey/NT6 (sometimes referred to as "Millennium" by MS and Paul Thurrott, intended as 64-bit) whereas "Neptune" then referred to the Personal edition of Windows 2000 later on, sharing features with Windows Me (once Millennium referred to that instead of Odyssey/NT6/Blackcomb).


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:49 pm 
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Would you mind providing some sources for this "Triton became Odyssey" and "Millennium was NT6" stuff? The first time I heard about this was in this thread and it just seems to me that you are presenting your own assumptions as facts.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:40 pm 
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AlphaBeta wrote:
Would you mind providing some sources for this "Triton became Odyssey" and "Millennium was NT6" stuff? The first time I heard about this was in this thread and it just seems to me that you are presenting your own assumptions as facts.


Some of this is based on conjecture but it is also backed up by facts.


NepTune/Triton Became Odyssey
As has already been said, Odyssey was the successor to Windows 2000 (according to Thurrott), and NepTune/Triton were the successors to Windows NT 5.0 (became 2K) as noted on Page 32 of PX07297 (http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon ... X07297.pdf ), with an "Asteroid" release in between. It was also noted in the same source that said Odyssey was Win2K's successor (https://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload ... .65641.PNG ) that it was NT 6.0.


https://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload ... .26310.gif
Shows MS's schedule that Neptune was a consumer-only update to Windows Me (based on Windows 2000) whereas Odyssey would succeed Win2K and Neptune, in the same vein that NT "NepTune" originally succeeded BOTH Windows 98 and NT5 (2000).


Millennium was NT6
I take this source from the Windows SuperSite circa September 1997: https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-serv ... ows-2000-0

Quote:
Also in September, I discovered the code-name for the next version of Windows, "Millennium." At the time, Millennium was to have been the next consumer Windows, or Windows NT 6.0. This never happened, of course, and Millennium eventually became the code-name of the Consumer Windows that followed Windows 98 Second Edition. NT 6.0 was originally expected in 2000 or 2001.

...

Allchin noted that Windows NT 6.0 would be the first fully 64-bit version of NT on both Intel and Alpha hardware.


This seems to come directly from Jim Allchin, just relayed to us through the Windows Supersite.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:29 am 
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That quote can not possibly be from 1997 because it mentions Windows 98 Second Edition, which was not even planned in 1997.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:38 am 
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Battler wrote:
That quote can not possibly be from 1997 because it mentions Windows 98 Second Edition, which was not even planned in 1997.

Well to be clear, the quote itself is not from 1997. It is simply referencing events from 1997. It was part of a recollection of the development of Windows 2000. Sorry for being unclear.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:58 pm 
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.NETLover3790 wrote:
Millennium was NT6
I take this source from the Windows SuperSite circa September 1997: https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-serv ... ows-2000-0

Quote:
Also in September, I discovered the code-name for the next version of Windows, "Millennium." At the time, Millennium was to have been the next consumer Windows, or Windows NT 6.0. This never happened, of course, and Millennium eventually became the code-name of the Consumer Windows that followed Windows 98 Second Edition. NT 6.0 was originally expected in 2000 or 2001.

...

Allchin noted that Windows NT 6.0 would be the first fully 64-bit version of NT on both Intel and Alpha hardware.


This seems to come directly from Jim Allchin, just relayed to us through the Windows Supersite.


I don't think that Jim Allchin was saying that Millennium was Windows NT 6.0 in that excerpt -- I think that he meant that the next version was going to be one of those two (either Windows ME, or Windows NT 6.0; not that they referred to the same product).


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:26 am 
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The book i have on Windows 2000, says that there was a consumer version of it due for release in 2001. This would be the netune beta, based heavily on W2K, but features that appeared in WME and WXP.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Why Windows ME was released after Neptune project cancel        Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:33 am 
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Windows ME Build 2380 was released back in July of 1999, while the Neptune build that everyone knows about came out in December of 1999. It was cancelled due to Windows Whistler. And thus we got Windows ME on September 14, 2000. We later got Windows XP since October 25, 2001.

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