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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:39 pm 
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Battler wrote:
- WinPC: The problem is, you keep telling me the evidence I rely on is not evidence, yet you have so far provided no evidence that points the other way, except for the inclusion of the Explorer integration, which I explained the inclusion of in a way that fits the evidence we have, and that is simple, as it requires no product renames or twin products. That alone makes it more likely since it's much more consistent with the general way Microsoft develop things, while yours is not. Mine does not introduce a hypothetical new Internet Explorer version (the "original IE 3.0"), mine simply fits 1056 into the known IE 3.0 and 4.0 development process. If you want to claim there was a second IE 3.0, it's up to you to prove that was the cause, not to me to prove it was not.
And what I am saying is that neither of us have any real evidence to begin with, and I was also not claiming to have 100% evidence for the other side either. It could easily be as you say. What I am saying, though, is that your theory doesn't have any more evidence (or any less evidence) then my theory. And as far as I'm concerned, we can only claim to have any evidence at all (for either side) if we can support it with official documents regarding Microsoft's release plans.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:51 pm 
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- WinPC: So the Build self-identifying as IE Beta 3, having an IE 3 version number (4.70), a Build number fitting the known IE 3 ones, and has a date that fits nicely into the known IE 3 schedule, is not evidence? To me it seems like strong evidence. Even more so when we consider that IE 3 is a known version. My hypothesis rests on that. It relies solely on the evidence we do have and provides an explanation into which everything we know so far neatly fit.
Yours however, requires the introduction of a second IE 3 version, for which we have no evidence at all. It is your hypothesis that relies on a claim we do not have evidence for, so it is you who must provide evidence for that.
So yeah, my hypothesis has more evidence to it because it relies solely on known and verified facts. Yours relies a hypothesized second IE 3.0 which is so far unproven. Therefore, the preponderance of evidence weights in my favor.
Also please don't arbitrarily raise the bars to "we need official documents". Especially, when my hypothesis rests on IE 3.0 1056, and 1086, as well as the known IE version progression in general (which only involves official Microsoft products) both of which were official Microsoft products.
So sorry but your hypothesis can not be considered equally likely as mine unless you provide evidence for a second IE 3.0.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Screens of... wait for it... Nashville 4.70.1101!

http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... .64170.png
http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... .12436.png
http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... .99903.png
http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... .41477.png
http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... r.1545.png
http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/ ... .43046.png

Note it has both brandings, as of IE3, and as of IE4.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Battler wrote:
- WinPC: So the Build self-identifying as IE Beta 3, having an IE 3 version number (4.70), a Build number fitting the known IE 3 ones, and has a date that fits nicely into the known IE 3 schedule, is not evidence? To me it seems like strong evidence. Even more so when we consider that IE 3 is a known version. My hypothesis rests on that. It relies solely on the evidence we do have and provides an explanation into which everything we know so far neatly fit.
Yours however, requires the introduction of a second IE 3 version, for which we have no evidence at all. It is your hypothesis that relies on a claim we do not have evidence for, so it is you who must provide evidence for that.
So yeah, my hypothesis has more evidence to it because it relies solely on known and verified facts. Yours relies a hypothesized second IE 3.0 which is so far unproven. Therefore, the preponderance of evidence weights in my favor.
Also please don't arbitrarily raise the bars to "we need official documents". Especially, when my hypothesis rests on IE 3.0 1056, and 1086, as well as the known IE version progression in general (which only involves official Microsoft products) both of which were official Microsoft products.
So sorry but your hypothesis can not be considered equally likely as mine unless you provide evidence for a second IE 3.0.
Except that your "hypothesis" cannot be considered equally likely unless you also prove that Microsoft could not have just as easily changed its product plans within a month. As I said, Neptune Build 5111 was from December 1999, and yet Microsoft still changed its plans as early as January 2000 also. And Windows Neptune and Windows 2000 were both official Microsoft products also.

You claim that this build happens to be Internet Explorer 3.0 simply because the references still state the version number as being 4.70 and the product name as being "Internet Explorer 3.0", even when it could just as easily have been Internet Explorer 4.0 forked from Internet Explorer 3.0 and compiled side by side. You also provide no evidence that Internet Explorer 3.0 didn't even branch out into two separate products either.

At the same time, I provided the possibility of this being what later became Internet Explorer 4.0 simply because of the web integrated shell being present, but it is also possible that the web-integrated shell was originally tested on Internet Explorer 3.0 code but planned for release with a future version of Internet Explorer.

What we have are several possibilities and not any actual evidence by itself. We have no evidence for this being an earlier build of the same Internet Explorer 3.0 that later shipped with Windows 95 OSR 2, nor do we have any evidence that this was what later became Internet Explorer 4.0.

Also, vizerous, thanks for posting those screenshots. If you could release that build here, then it would help us even more.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:27 pm 
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- Vizerous: Could you please upload that Build? I think we would all like to test it very much.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Battler wrote:
- Vizerous: Could you please upload that Build? I think we would all like to test it very much.
Not to mention that it would help us to determine whether these are builds of Internet Explorer 3.0 or Internet Explorer 4.0.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:42 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:44 pm 
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WinPC wrote:
Except that your "hypothesis" cannot be considered equally likely unless you also prove that Microsoft could not have just as easily changed its product plans within a month. As I said, Neptune Build 5111 was from December 1999, and yet Microsoft still changed its plans as early as January 2000 also. And Windows Neptune and Windows 2000 were both official Microsoft products also.

My hypothesis is based on verifiable facts. Yours is based on guesswork.

Quote:
You claim that this build happens to be Internet Explorer 3.0 simply because the references still state the version number as being 4.70 and the product name as being "Internet Explorer 3.0", even when it could just as easily have been Internet Explorer 4.0 forked from Internet Explorer 3.0 and compiled side by side. You also provide no evidence that Internet Explorer 3.0 didn't even branch out into two separate products either.

I never claimed IE 3.0 never branched out into two separate products, I merely said it did not branch out that early.

Quote:
At the same time, I provided the possibility of this being what later became Internet Explorer 4.0 simply because of the web integrated shell being present, but it is also possible that the web-integrated shell was originally tested on Internet Explorer 3.0 code but planned for release with a future version of Internet Explorer.

Or originally planned to be released with IE 3.0, but then not being stable enough in time, and therefore postponed to IE 4.0.

Quote:
What we have are several possibilities and not any actual evidence by itself. We have no evidence for this being an earlier build of the same Internet Explorer 3.0 that later shipped with Windows 95 OSR 2, nor do we have any evidence that this was what later became Internet Explorer 4.0.

Also, vizerous, thanks for posting those screenshots. If you could release that build here, then it would help us even more.

Actually, until evidence is provided for a second IE 3.0, it is safe to assume this is one and the same IE 3.0. If it looks like a duck, moves like a duck, quacks like a duck, and calls itself a duck, then it's safe to assume it's a duck.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:47 pm 
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As I said, Neptune Build 5111 was from December 1999, and yet Microsoft still changed its plans as early as January 2000 also. And Windows Neptune and Windows 2000 were both official Microsoft products also.


False Cause Fallacy. You can't simply equate the development of Neptune to the development of Internet Explorer 3.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Battler wrote:
- Vizerous: Could you please upload that Build? I think we would all like to test it very much.


Actually, I just got a hold of it.. and uploaded it to BA...

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Oh, you surely got a big treasure :D Can you take out something like OSR3 1174 from your top hat?

Btw... I initially asked if it so called Nashville Shell Integration was ever released, or it was completely abandoned... Because I do not remember any trace of that explorer integration in OSR2.5. But it turned into IE version discussing.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:11 pm 
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I uninstalled 1055 in my VM, installed 1101.. and setup GPF'd near the end.

After reboot, IE doesn't run, Explorer windows crash out when you try to open them, and this happens:

Image

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Well, The Distractor found this link: https://www.cs.duke.edu/courses/cps049s ... ry/ie.html .

Let me quote the relevant part:
Quote:
It is common for development on the next version of a product to occur simultaneously with the release or near-release of the current version. This is what happened with Internet Explorer 4. Version 3 was an ambitious project to begin with. The project – code-named “Athena” – was scheduled to be released in the Summer of 1996, and it was supposed to include a web browser, an email client and news reader, a new TCP/IP auto-dialer, and Microsoft NetMeeting.

Athena would also be the primary client in another project – code-named “Normandy.” Normandy was a product line comprised of various Internet-related technologies, such as Microsoft Chat Server, Microsoft Personalization Server, Internet News Server, Microsoft Merchant Server, and others. The “summer Internet package,” as it came to be known, would later become blended into another project – code-named “Nashville” – which was to be the successor to Windows 95 UI shell.

Late in the development cycle for Internet Explorer 3, it became apparent that Microsoft would not be able to deliver Athena as planned in the Summer of 1996. So, Microsoft cut back on their plans and released Internet Explorer 3, Internet Mail and News 1.0 and Microsoft NetMeeting 1.0. Microsoft then began working on a new project under the code-name of “Nashville.” Nashville was being billed as an “Internet Update Release.” Microsoft had ambitious plans for Nashville. It would be a web browser (at the time based on Internet Explorer 3), an email client, a news reader, a personal web server, data and audio conferencing, and a personal information manager. More importantly, it would replace the existing Windows shell, making it a completely integrated product. Their intent was to release a new version of Windows with Nashville blended in.

Nashville’s goal was to evolve the Windows 95 shell to provide integration between the user’s PC and the Internet, blurring (and removing), the boundary between Windows 95 and Internet Explorer. The Nashville team merged elements from the Windows 95 Explorer with features from Internet Explorer, and created a new shell (which is still called Explorer). Nashville’s goal was realized in on September 30, 1997, when Microsoft released Internet Explorer 4.

The demand for version 4 was impressive. In the first 24 hours it was available, it was being downloaded once every six seconds. This amounted to the transmission of a whopping ten terabytes of data! The demand exceeded everyone’s expectations, including Microsoft’s. But in a matter of days, security issues began cropping up, and Microsoft began releasing what was to be a long stream of patches, updates and service packs, resulting in a number of different builds for version 4.

This, plus Build 1101 which clearly calls itself IE 4.0, proves WinPC right. Microsoft did fork IE 3.0 into IE 4.0, and codename it Nashville. So the two "Nashville" IE Builds we have, are very early Builds of IE 4.0.

BTW, here is a screenshot of 1101 running on top of 999:
Image

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Here's a couple of screenshots of 1101 on NT4 RTM (well, SP1):

(1055 does not work on NT4 RTM, I assume it'd work on 11xx or early 12xx though.)

Image
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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:59 am 
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IE4.0 shell integration for Windows NT must have been last on their to-do list judging buy the date on these files:
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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:29 am 
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betaluva wrote:
IE4.0 shell integration for Windows NT must have been last on their to-do list judging buy the date on these files


What build is this? One of the IE4 Platform Previews?

And it definitely happened early, see my screenshots of 1101 on NT4, which has some shell integration..

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Release notes of 1101 said NT4 support is weak and wasn't tested for this particular build.


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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:54 pm 
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vizerous wrote:
Release notes of 1101 said NT4 support is weak and wasn't tested for this particular build.


During install it says it was only tested on Beta 2, but it seems to work fine on 1381.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:36 pm 
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They aren't on the ftp yet?

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:54 am 
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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:36 pm 
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- betaluva: While I appreciate your upload, could you please upload the whole Build?

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:45 am 
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I can't seem to find this on the FTP.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:28 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Ok, I'll wait.

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 PostPost subject: Re: [RELEAK] IE4 "Nashville Plus Pack" 4.70.1056        Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:33 am 
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I was suspecting IE 3.0 to be forked that early, judging by IE 3.02 in Memphis. Also:
http://emureview.ztnet.com/emuunlim/txt/133.txt
"NASHVILLE PLUS PACK BUILD 1072 FOR WINDOWS 95/NT"

This listing is hosted on a creepy time-frozen server. I wonder how many other Nashville builds got released.

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