Anyone with a KryoFlux in here?

[comradesean]

I'm attempting to archive IBM-PC games and I'm wondering if there's anyone out there with some knowledge on it that I can pick.

Made KF Stream (preservation) files for a copy of Space Quest v2.2 I own, but I'm having difficulty converting them into a readable image. Left it on default settings and it says it was recorded at 360RPM (Should be 300. Is that a problem?) and I'm getting nowhere using HxC's and PCE's conversion software.

HxC likes to create hfe images which are being read at 170kb and crashing their custom floppy emulator vfd.

PCE looks like it's working fine when I convert to to pfi, then to pri. But pri->psi exits without any errors and creates an empty 28kb file.

[nathaniel87]

What type of floppy disk(s) is the software on?

[comradesean]

I have a few actually, but the one I'm focusing on right now is Space Quest (v2.2) 360kb 5.25'' 2-sided 40 track.

The default preservation created 83 2-sided tracks. (At 360RPM according to pfi's track list analyser)

Things attempted:
- Removing the extra tracks leaving it at 80.
- Further removing the odd numbered tracks
- When all that failed, I renumbered all tracks to leave no gaps

I think that was all a waste of time because it didn't seem to affect the result in any way. I guess the software compensated?

[nathaniel87]

First of all, 360rpm is the correct rotational speed of standard 5.25" floppy disks, so that seems OK.
Second, if you have a KryoFlux, why not just use DTC to convert the stream files to a sector image? When you dump the disk, did you try something like this?

Code: Select all

dtc.exe -fstream_dump -i0 -g2 -k2 -fimage.img -v360 -i4

Otherwise to convert your previous stream dump:

Code: Select all

dtc.exe -m1 -fstream_dump -i0 -g2 -k2 -fimage.img -v360 -i4

[comradesean]

Okay, rotational speed was really worrying me.

I actually have a raw .IMG created from dtc, but this software is copy protected and makes it almost useless. I've seen posts of people successfully creating readable converted images, but with documentation being almost zilch I can't seem to create my own. I also thought this would be a good test to see if I dumped them correctly.

~Another person with the exact same game as me managed to convert it, but his steps just fail for me on PSI conversion.
http://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=765#p6734

~No real documentation here, but he's introducing KF Stream support. It's actually out of beta now.
http://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?t=426
http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_driv ... r_soft.zip

It can convert KryoFlux Streams into AMI or HFE formats. Go to Batch Converter. Set destination directory. Set Target Format. Drag track00.0.raw and drop into window. I get a readable image, but it loses the disk structure and creates a 372kb or so image.


~http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_driv ... fd_hxc.zip
They have a custom version of Virtual Floppy Drive that supports loading HFE images which afaik supports copy protected disks.

[mrpijey]

Why don't you just dump it into stream format (preservation mode) and link us to the stream data set? Then we can take a look at it and see what we can read out and how to use the resulting image.

[comradesean]

Here ya go

Disk 1:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sv76vsfgtaoze ... 1.zip?dl=0

Disk2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1buk4zso2i4pb ... 2.zip?dl=0

[Battler]

First of all, 360rpm is the correct rotational speed of standard 5.25" floppy disks, so that seems OK.

The standard for 360 kB floppies is 300 rpm actually. But high density 5.25" drives read them at 360 rpm by also bumping up the data rate from 250 kbps to 300 kbps.

Edit: Also, the rpm on its own isn't really relevant. It is relevant when taken in combination with the data rate. Ie. 360 pm at 300 kbps (FDC rate 1) and 300 rpm at 250 kbps (FDC rate 2) produce the same type of media.

[nathaniel87]

First of all, 360rpm is the correct rotational speed of standard 5.25" floppy disks, so that seems OK.

The standard for 360 kB floppies is 300 rpm actually. But high density 5.25" drives read them at 360 rpm by also bumping up the data rate from 250 kbps to 300 kbps.

Edit: Also, the rpm on its own isn't really relevant. It is relevant when taken in combination with the data rate. Ie. 360 pm at 300 kbps (FDC rate 1) and 300 rpm at 250 kbps (FDC rate 2) produce the same type of media.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. I just assumed that since my drive spins all 5.25" disks at 360rpm, that it must be the standard rate. But as you said, I guess it doesn't matter so much as long as the rpm and data rate match.

[BzzBR]

It's look like you have some issues on your dump. See the log below.

Some tracks are converted as FM or UNK ( unknown ). May be this is the cause of the issues and explain why are you getting a image with the wrong size.
What Floppy Drive model are you using for dumping ? I had some issues when I tried to dump 720kb floppies using a 1.2mb floppy drive. Then I used a 720kb floppy drive and it dumped a perfect image and stream. I know it should work with 1.2mb drives, but as this things are very old, we never know. Today I have 1.2mb, 720kb and 360kb drives to dump the floppies.

Track 0/0: MFM 599 KHz
Track 0/1: MFM 599 KHz
Track 1/0: UNK 354 KHz
Track 1/1: FM 311 KHz
Track 2/0: MFM 597 KHz
Track 2/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track 3/0: UNK 366 KHz
Track 3/1: UNK 340 KHz
Track 4/0: MFM 597 KHz
Track 4/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track 5/0: FM 370 KHz
Track 5/1: UNK 340 KHz
Track 6/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 6/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 7/0: UNK 367 KHz
Track 7/1: FM 343 KHz
Track 8/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 8/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 9/0: UNK 369 KHz
Track 9/1: UNK 340 KHz
Track 10/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 10/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 11/0: FM 373 KHz
Track 11/1: FM 342 KHz
Track 12/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 12/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track 13/0: UNK 374 KHz
Track 13/1: UNK 342 KHz
Track 14/0: MFM 599 KHz
Track 14/1: MFM 598 KHz
Track 15/0: FM 378 KHz
Track 15/1: FM 344 KHz
Track 16/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 16/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track 17/0: UNK 379 KHz
Track 17/1: UNK 343 KHz
Track 18/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 18/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 19/0: FM 377 KHz
Track 19/1: FM 342 KHz
Track 20/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 20/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 21/0: UNK 376 KHz
Track 21/1: UNK 336 KHz
Track 22/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 22/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track 23/0: FM 380 KHz
Track 23/1: FM 344 KHz
Track 24/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 24/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 25/0: FM 380 KHz
Track 25/1: UNK 338 KHz
Track 26/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 26/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 27/0: UNK 379 KHz
Track 27/1: UNK 339 KHz
Track 28/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 28/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 29/0: FM 378 KHz
Track 29/1: UNK 337 KHz
Track 30/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 30/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 31/0: FM 379 KHz
Track 31/1: UNK 335 KHz
Track 32/0: MFM 594 KHz
Track 32/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 33/0: UNK 381 KHz
Track 33/1: FM 335 KHz
Track 34/0: MFM 594 KHz
Track 34/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 35/0: FM 384 KHz
Track 35/1: FM 331 KHz
Track 36/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 36/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 37/0: FM 384 KHz
Track 37/1: FM 333 KHz
Track 38/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 38/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 39/0: FM 384 KHz
Track 39/1: UNK 330 KHz
Track 40/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 40/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 41/0: FM 384 KHz
Track 41/1: UNK 329 KHz
Track 42/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 42/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 43/0: FM 382 KHz
Track 43/1: FM 328 KHz
Track 44/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 44/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 45/0: UNK 387 KHz
Track 45/1: FM 327 KHz
Track 46/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 46/1: MFM 608 KHz
Track 47/0: UNK 391 KHz
Track 47/1: FM 327 KHz
Track 48/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 48/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 49/0: FM 395 KHz
Track 49/1: UNK 323 KHz
Track 50/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 50/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 51/0: FM 395 KHz
Track 51/1: FM 323 KHz
Track 52/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 52/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 53/0: FM 394 KHz
Track 53/1: FM 323 KHz
Track 54/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 54/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 55/0: UNK 393 KHz
Track 55/1: FM 319 KHz
Track 56/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 56/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 57/0: FM 396 KHz
Track 57/1: UNK 314 KHz
Track 58/0: MFM 604 KHz
Track 58/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 59/0: UNK 394 KHz
Track 59/1: UNK 314 KHz
Track 60/0: MFM 611 KHz
Track 60/1: MFM 610 KHz
Track 61/0: UNK 390 KHz
Track 61/1: FM 316 KHz
Track 62/0: MFM 608 KHz
Track 62/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 63/0: UNK 395 KHz
Track 63/1: FM 316 KHz
Track 64/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 64/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 65/0: UNK 395 KHz
Track 65/1: UNK 309 KHz
Track 66/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 66/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 67/0: UNK 396 KHz
Track 67/1: UNK 313 KHz
Track 68/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 68/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 69/0: FM 392 KHz
Track 69/1: UNK 310 KHz
Track 70/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 70/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 71/0: UNK 392 KHz
Track 71/1: UNK 310 KHz
Track 72/0: MFM 604 KHz
Track 72/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 73/0: UNK 391 KHz
Track 73/1: UNK 309 KHz
Track 74/0: MFM 603 KHz
Track 74/1: MFM 603 KHz
Track 75/0: FM 394 KHz
Track 75/1: UNK 307 KHz
Track 76/0: MFM 603 KHz
Track 76/1: MFM 602 KHz
Track 77/0: FM 394 KHz
Track 77/1: UNK 311 KHz
Track 78/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 78/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track 79/0: FM 390 KHz
Track 79/1: UNK 308 KHz
Track 80/0: FM 387 KHz
Track 80/1: FM 356 KHz
Track 81/0: UNK 386 KHz
Track 81/1: FM 357 KHz
Track 82/0: FM 391 KHz
Track 82/1: FM 357 KHz
Track 83/0: FM 393 KHz
Track 83/1: FM 359 KHz

[Battler]

Could it be a 360 kB disk formatted in an 1.2 MB drive? I heard an 1.2 MB drive would produce thinner tracks, and if there were existing "thick" tracks produced by a 360 kB drive, reading the disk could be unreliable.

[comradesean]

It's look like you have some issues on your dump. See the log below.

Some tracks are converted as FM or UNK ( unknown ). May be this is the cause of the issues and explain why are you getting a image with the wrong size.
What Floppy Drive model are you using for dumping ? I had some issues when I tried to dump 720kb floppies using a 1.2mb floppy drive. Then I used a 720kb floppy drive and it dumped a perfect image and stream. I know it should work with 1.2mb drives, but as this things are very old, we never know. Today I have 1.2mb, 720kb and 360kb drives to dump the floppies.

Track 0/0: MFM 599 KHz
Track 0/1: MFM 599 KHz

I really don't know if I'm talking out of my ass here, but keep in mind this is actually a 40track disk and the KF Stream automatically reads all possible of the 83 tracks.

I ran the PFI tool to convert it into a pfi file and analysed it using '-p double-step' and came up with the following.

Code: Select all

C:\Users\ComradeSean\Desktop\track2>pfi disk1.pfi -p double-step -p analyse
Track  0/0: MFM 599 KHz
Track  0/1: MFM 599 KHz
Track  1/0: MFM 597 KHz
Track  1/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track  2/0: MFM 597 KHz
Track  2/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track  3/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  3/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track  4/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  4/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track  5/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  5/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track  6/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  6/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track  7/0: MFM 599 KHz
Track  7/1: MFM 598 KHz
Track  8/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  8/1: MFM 597 KHz
Track  9/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track  9/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 10/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 10/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 11/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 11/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track 12/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 12/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 13/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 13/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 14/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 14/1: MFM 596 KHz
Track 15/0: MFM 595 KHz
Track 15/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 16/0: MFM 594 KHz
Track 16/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 17/0: MFM 594 KHz
Track 17/1: MFM 594 KHz
Track 18/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 18/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 19/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 19/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 20/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 20/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 21/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 21/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 22/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 22/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 23/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 23/1: MFM 608 KHz
Track 24/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 24/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 25/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 25/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 26/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 26/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 27/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 27/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 28/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 28/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 29/0: MFM 604 KHz
Track 29/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 30/0: MFM 611 KHz
Track 30/1: MFM 610 KHz
Track 31/0: MFM 608 KHz
Track 31/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 32/0: MFM 606 KHz
Track 32/1: MFM 607 KHz
Track 33/0: MFM 607 KHz
Track 33/1: MFM 606 KHz
Track 34/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 34/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 35/0: MFM 605 KHz
Track 35/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 36/0: MFM 604 KHz
Track 36/1: MFM 605 KHz
Track 37/0: MFM 603 KHz
Track 37/1: MFM 603 KHz
Track 38/0: MFM 603 KHz
Track 38/1: MFM 602 KHz
Track 39/0: MFM 596 KHz
Track 39/1: MFM 595 KHz
Track 40/0:  FM 387 KHz
Track 40/1:  FM 356 KHz
Track 41/0:  FM 391 KHz
Track 41/1:  FM 357 KHz

MFM drops off after the 40th track so I think that looks good? Also I can grab you my drive's make/model after I'm done at work today.

[Battler]

Well of course, it's a 360 kB disk, so 40 tracks. Maybe there's stuff in tracks 40 and 41 but who knows what it is.

[mrpijey]

I ran your uploaded images and it all looks just fine. Apart from one modified sector it all looks legit. The resulting image files also works just fine (tried in DOSBox).

[BzzBR]

Well of course, it's a 360 kB disk, so 40 tracks. Maybe there's stuff in tracks 40 and 41 but who knows what it is.

Yeah. You are right. I forgot this "small" detail on the above analyses. My bad.

[comradesean]

I ran your uploaded images and it all looks just fine. Apart from one modified sector it all looks legit. The resulting image files also works just fine (tried in DOSBox).

That's a relief. Did you manage to get past the copy protection check?

[BzzBR]

I got the same results here as mrpijey for disk 1.



Also, I was able to mount and install disk 1 using dosbox. But can't finish with disk 2.



If I try to run the game, can't bypass the disk check.



Disk 1 contents :

AGI 38,400 07-05-1987 13:52
AGIDATA OVL 7,680 06-05-1987 10:33
CGA_GRAF OVL 1,024 06-05-1987 10:32
CPC COM 8,048 19-09-1985 16:47
EGA_GRAF OVL 1,024 06-05-1987 10:32
HGC_FONT 3,072 26-01-1987 15:47
HGC_GRAF OVL 1,536 06-05-1987 10:32
HGC_OBJS OVL 1,024 06-05-1987 10:32
IBM_OBJS OVL 512 06-05-1987 10:32
INSTALLH BAT 1,203 07-05-1987 13:52
JR_GRAF OVL 512 06-05-1987 10:32
LOGDIR 372 07-05-1987 12:50
MAKEPATH COM 74 22-04-1987 12:05
OBJECT 331 13-04-1987 17:07
PICDIR 315 07-05-1987 12:50
SIERRA COM 2,944 07-05-1987 13:52
SNDDIR 198 07-05-1987 12:50
VIEWDIR 762 07-05-1987 12:50
VOL 0 40,622 07-05-1987 12:49
VOL 1 222,807 07-05-1987 12:49
WORDS TOK 4,793 17-04-1987 15:44
_INSTALL BAT 753 07-05-1987 13:52
_SQ BAT 37 03-03-1987 9:22
23 File(s) 338,043 Bytes.
0 Dir(s) 262,111,744 Bytes free.


Disk 2 :

OBJECT 331 13-04-1987 17:07
VOL 0 40,622 07-05-1987 12:49
VOL 2 264,177 07-05-1987 12:50
3 File(s) 305,130 Bytes.
0 Dir(s) 262,111,744 Bytes free.


I completed the installation manually ( just copy the VOL.2 file to $ SIERRA\SQ\ folder). But still can't bypass the disk check.

[comradesean]

From what I understand, which isn't much, track 6 is "odd" and is necessary for the copy protection. And the raw .IMG format does not support it.

I've seen examples of people converting their streams into PSI or NFE images which contain that irregular track, but I can't seem to replicate it.

[Battler]

I looked at these streams, and I have to say, I don't understand them at all. According to this site, the Kryoflux stores the actual magnetic transitions. Is that true? Because I considered adding support for Kryoflux streams to PCem-X, but adding emulation of magnetic transitions would be overkill.

Is there a documented image format that supports byte streams for tracks (with byte streams, I mean everything, including sector ID's, etc.)? Because I could then add that for the sake of copy-protected floppies. I did make my own, .PEF, but I have no idea how to mark the index bytes as having missing clock bits.

[mrpijey]

Battler, don't add support for the stream format directly, you should add support for the IPF format as well as the CT Raw Format which is what emulators support and what KF can output. The KF team has their CAPS library you should use, they developed it especially for emulator coders to properly support the low level format.

http://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?p=7624#p7624

If you implemented this then it would me a huge step towards proper floppy drive emulation and we can use titles that uses sector based copy protections etc as we don't need to rely on the inferior img format.

[anormal]

hi,

this is the command line i use to dump succesfully 360KB floppy disks

DTC -fdragon_wars_d1_ -i0 -k2 -fdwd1.img -i4

(this case for dumping disk 1 of dragon wars),
For me, using -k2 it's important, so DTC knows this is a 40tracks disk, also if you read the manual -k2 must be *BEFORE* -i4, so dtc interprets that -i4 img creation comes from a 4 40tracks disk, if you use this -i4 -k2, it doesn't work (yes, i think kryoflux could update the commandline processing, at least giving a hint about params that go nowhere)

As i stated many times in other forums, PC floppy preservation has been a joke for years, just check games processed from Softpres people and you'll see, this is normal i think as they are Amiga guys

KF and SCP dumping and using formats as PCE pfi,psi and KF ipf, it's vital, i already have CIFO games that tried to dump and the floppys are already dead/bitrotten

Sadly, the 6 PC's ipfs (from softpres) are dumped because they came from other platforms (the typical game that in the same disk you got amig and pc versions)

Let's see if this situation changes soon.

I write all of this, just to say, don't support only ipf format (6 games dumped), but CT Raw, PCE's format and SCP dumps

Excuse the rant!

[mrpijey]

A wide support would of course be best, but what I am saying is that there's no need to specifically support the stream format, but make it support the CT Raw format which is essentially the same thing but in a more compact form.

And I agree the SPS "library" of PC dumps is laughable. BA has more games preserved than that. I stopped submitting stuff to them because I never got any IPFs back from them, and they don't share any of their libraries either which in my world goes against the nature of preservation... one day they decide to call it quits and poof, it's all gone. Here at least we're trying to openly make sure that others can get the releases and make sure they survive.

So I suggest we make the best efforts in preserving all floppies with a KF (or similar) device so we get the best dump possible. If we then get decent emulators to support these formats directly then even better as we can use and experiment with the software directly.

[Battler]

- mrpijey: Any documentation of IPF and CT raw formats? Because I'm not sure how to link that library into PCem-X.

[Darkstar]

IPF is not officially documented, you have to use their library (DLL) to interface with it. On the plus side, that library already contains a very sophisticated lowlevel-emulator for the FDC that works perfectly fine (according to the authors of the few Emulators that support that DLL)

I think CT is entirely undocumented

MESS has an IPF reader in their source code, you could use that as reference (however I think its license is incompatible with DosBox so you can't use it directly)

[comradesean]

IPF is not officially documented, you have to use their library (DLL) to interface with it. On the plus side, that library already contains a very sophisticated lowlevel-emulator for the FDC that works perfectly fine (according to the authors of the few Emulators that support that DLL)

I think CT is entirely undocumented

MESS has an IPF reader in their source code, you could use that as reference (however I think its license is incompatible with DosBox so you can't use it directly)

Keep in mind that IPF images are inaccessible to all of us until SPS starts supporting IBM-PC submissions.


EDIT:
Just had a breakthrough. I've successfully converted the KF Stream into a readable TransCopy image.

download:http://www.hampa.ch/pub/pce/pre/pce-201 ... -win32.zip

Code: Select all

pfi track00.0.raw -p double-step -r 600000 -p decode pri disk1-mfm.pri
pri disk1-mfm.pri -c 40-99 -p delete disk1-mfm.pri
pfi track00.0.raw -p double-step -r 300000 -p decode pri disk1-fm.pri
pri disk1-mfm.pri -m disk1-fm.pri disk1.pri
pri disk1.pri disk1.tc

And I'm up and running in Hampa's PC Emulator.