View topic - Win7/Vista without license = demo? - Windows, Apple, Application, Abandonware and Game Beta Downloads/Repository

mrpijey

I've been thinking about something and wanted to get some opinions...

Both Windows 7 and Vista can be installed without a license key. Both will enter a trial mode that can be extended (with a limit) until a time comes where you have to enter a valid license key for activation. Would this make any Win7/Vista version a demo version of sorts? If so, what objections would Microsoft really having of seeing the ISO files being shared on the net (as long as there is no key or crack included)?

I am wondering because if it were so that it was really a trial version or demo version then what would be the wrong of BetaArchive putting up the ISOs? After all you are allowed to run it in trial mode for a limited time, and we wouldn't provide any serial numbers or cracks with it. Just an original ISO, disc dumped or Technet/MSDN one.

This wouldn't apply to Windows XP of course since it asks for a serial during install and won't let you continue without it. I bet Windows 8 will act like Windows 7 and Vista tho.

What are your thoughts?

linuxlove

mrpijey wrote:

I bet Windows 8 will act like Windows 7 and Vista tho.

Maybe... The Consumer Preview does ask for a serial prior to any files being copied and that may be an indication that's what they're going to do for the final product.

As for distributing RTM builds of Vista and 7, I'd have to say no. Even without providing serials and/or cracks, providing the RTM build from someplace other than the developer's website or store is, in my mind, one form of encouraging piracy.

PlyrStar93

I used to think that installation without license keys is just like Microsoft providing trial period. However does Microsoft have any explicit words about allowing to share those images or not? Microsoft doesn't appear to speak anything about if it's a trial, it just says "grace period" in slmgr.vbs -dlv. So this is possibly just part of its anti-pirate system...

linuxlove wrote:

providing the RTM build from someplace other than the developer's website or store is, in my mind, one form of encouraging piracy.

probably I have to agree on your opinion.

3155ffGd

Indeed. Consider the fact that Vista/7 ships with other things, such as the Windows fonts, which can be used even without a key.

mrpijey

Yeah, you're all probably right, but still, considering how Windows Vista and 7 are designed I find it odd why Microsoft never offered the ISO files freely on their website. After all it runs as a trial version before activating it, allowing you to test the OS. If Microsoft didn't intend this then they would have forced a valid serial during installation, just like XP and prior versions did.

As for Windows 8, for all we know they may change the installer in the RTM to allow installation without a serial, that part is quite uncertain at the moment. And if they do then it only raises more questions why Microsoft only provides the ISO file if you pay for it even when the software itself is equipped with a demo functionality. I mean, just make it shareware and sell licenses online through MSDN or Microsoft Store or whatever. For Microsoft it would have been a win-win situation either way. And considering how Microsoft designed the trial functionality one would think that they would allow external distribution of their installer discs.

And in the end the actual value is in the license, without it the OS is useless. Just as with any other software that requires a key. You pay for a license so you can fully run the software, not the right to own an installer disc. And you don't need to pay for a demo version (well, unless you're Microsoft of course since you then legally have to pay for an OS that runs in trial mode before you choose to use your license

).

But anyway, it was just a thought as I was packing up all my Windows 7 and Vista ISOs for archiving.

Panda X

I've always seen it as an amount of time to fix an issue with the licensing. For example if you bought a used computer and it had an illegitimate install of Windows or the activation messed up or something you have 30 days to resolve it. Which is why they call it a grace period rather than a trial period.

mrpijey

Panda X wrote:

I've always seen it as an amount of time to fix an issue with the licensing. For example if you bought a used computer and it had an illegitimate install of Windows or the activation messed up or something you have 30 days to resolve it. Which is why they call it a grace period rather than a trial period.

Yes, but the fact that you can install it without a license says otherwise. If the installer had forced you to enter a valid (or at least properly calculated) serial and then allowed a grace period after an activation failure then I would have agreed with you. But Microsoft doesn't force a serial during install.

3155ffGd

I think the more likely reason is so you don't get in panic looking hectically for the key during installation if you can't find it, especially after moving into a new apartment. Having to redo the whole setup is very painful in this case, so it makes more sense giving the user 30 days of time to find their license key again.

mrpijey

Yeah, probably.

Ah well, I'll just keep the stuff archived until the year 2093 or something when Microsoft finally decides to let them go

.

WinPC

Well, it would depend on what you call a "trial" version. As far as I'm concerned, I would never distribute (unless I had what I thought was a proper reason for doing so) an actual purchased copy of Windows Vista/Server 2008 or Windows 7/Server 2008 R2, since even before activation, Microsoft in most cases states that you must legally aquire the product for yourself (not necessarily purchase it, but also not to aquire it in a way that would result in using a copy that has already been activated for use on another system).

However, as far as I know, Microsoft does offer trial versions of Windows Vista/Server 2008 and Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 for download online, from what I remember, 180 Day Evaluation versions, and since they're set to expire no matter what (from what I see, anyway), I could understand placing those versions in our archive.

The only problem is this: Other members may find a way to break through the evaluation system and evade the expiration date, meaning that this may still lead to piracy. Also, theoretically, if I wanted to, I could just reinstall the product and copy back my data upon expiration anyway, but then, why would Microsoft even place such versions on their website anyway, if this might still be a problem?

The issue here is this: What was actually intended for the particular versions. Microsoft still intends such versions to be for evaluation purposes only, meaning that we might be able to invoke a rule stating that members are not allowed to download these versions for purposes other than evaluation, testing, and experimental purposes, unless there was a good enough reason as to why they were not able to aquire the "full" product legally. However, I think that that would be rather harsh, not to mention that it might also be seen as taking Microsoft's authority over their products into our own hands, rather than letting Microsoft itself handle the situation for themselves.

So really, allowing actual evaluation versions to be uploaded may be a grey area in some ways, but it's not technically illegal, since they (as far as I know) are still available for download from the Microsoft website.

But in the end, it's all up to you, mrpijey. I would certainly not put any copies of Windows Vista/Server 2008 and Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 up for download unless they were specifically classified as evaluation versions by Microsoft itself. However, if you want to put up anything for download that has been officially released as an evaluation version, then the question is how the members here will use these downloads (whether they'll use them as intended, or whether they'll instead find ways to breach the expiration date system), and not whether Microsoft would have a problem with it, since they still put up those downloads in the first place.

hounsell

This is exactly why it happens. Microsoft have encouraged people to use the grace period as a trial, even going so far as to recommend they re-arm if they need to use it longer.

Just take a look at the Windows 7 SP1 90-day Trial as one example. Log in with any Live account, get a "90 day trial". It's essentially nothing more than Windows 7 without a key. 30-days grace, with the ability to re-arm twice = 90 day trial.

There's similar cases with Server 2008 (R2) as well I believe. I don't believe there's any danger to distributing the full ISOs unless there's also keys or activators, which would never happen on BA.

WinPC

Well, although I understand your point, I would still not recommend distributing any copies of those products here, unless they were not only specifically classed as evaluation versions, but also placed up for public (or more or less public) download on Microsoft's website, since we at least know that they were actually intended to be used as evaluation versions.

So yeah, although I wouldn't distribute any .ISO images ripped from the actual store bought or OEM media, it still would be technically allowed if we mirrored any .ISO images that were officially released as evaluation versions onto the Microsoft website, such as the example that hounsell provided above, although I'm still not quite sure how the members are going to handle such downloads, whether they'll use them as intended, or whether they'll simply break the anti-piracy schemes and evade any expiration dates.

Panda X

mrpijey wrote:

Panda X wrote:

I've always seen it as an amount of time to fix an issue with the licensing. For example if you bought a used computer and it had an illegitimate install of Windows or the activation messed up or something you have 30 days to resolve it. Which is why they call it a grace period rather than a trial period.

Yes, but the fact that you can install it without a license says otherwise. If the installer had forced you to enter a valid (or at least properly calculated) serial and then allowed a grace period after an activation failure then I would have agreed with you. But Microsoft doesn't force a serial during install.

What if for example the key doesn't work for whatever reason? You can skip it for now and come back and deal with it later, if you knew it was valid and can be sorted by calling MS or something post-install.

hounsell wrote:

This is exactly why it happens. Microsoft have encouraged people to use the grace period as a trial, even going so far as to recommend they re-arm if they need to use it longer.

Just take a look at the Windows 7 SP1 90-day Trial as one example. Log in with any Live account, get a "90 day trial". It's essentially nothing more than Windows 7 without a key. 30-days grace, with the ability to re-arm twice = 90 day trial.

There's similar cases with Server 2008 (R2) as well I believe. I don't believe there's any danger to distributing the full ISOs unless there's also keys or activators, which would never happen on BA.

Isn't the licensing one of the reasons that the trial is Enterprise and not some other SKU?

Bender

Microsoft does have the ISOs for Windows 7 available...

They're from Digital River, who is contracted to host the Microsoft Store and offers Windows 7 in their store.

Code:

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24208.iso   Windows 7   Home Premium   x86   English
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24209.iso   Windows 7   Home Premium   x64   English
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24268.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Chinese
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24269.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Chinese
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24276.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Danish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24277.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Danish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24278.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Dutch
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24279.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Dutch
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24280.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   English
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24281.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   English
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24284.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Finnish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24285.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Finnish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24286.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   French
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24287.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   French
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24288.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   German
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24289.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   German
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24296.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Italian
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24297.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Italian
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24302.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Norwegian
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24303.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Norwegian
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24306.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Portuguese
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24307.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Portuguese
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24318.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Spanish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24319.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Spanish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24320.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Swedish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24321.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Swedish
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24328.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x86   Korean
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24329.iso   Windows 7   Professional   x64   Korean
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24394.iso   Windows 7   Ultimate   x86   English
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24395.iso   Windows 7   Ultimate   x64   English

startmenuisgone

Im thinking that because of Windows 8 preview having a requirement for a key, there doing this to try to stop people from using Activation Cracks. (Ahem, it wont work though). All windows builds with activation have been cracked by warez groups, 8 will be too, unless microsoft finds out a new sneaky plan for activation that nobody can figure out.

mrpijey

Bender, where did you get all those links?

And I won't put the ISOs up, I'll send away a private question to my contacts at Microsoft and ask them about distributing "official" ISO files (not DVD dumps), but to avoid any problems I won't put them up on BA until the OS is considered to be abandonware.

startmenuisgone

mrpijey wrote:

Bender, where did you get all those links?

And I won't put the ISOs up, I'll send away a private question to my contacts at Microsoft and ask them about distributing "official" ISO files (not DVD dumps), but to avoid any problems I won't put them up on BA until the OS is considered to be abandonware.

I can answer it, there legal links. The ISO files are from a legal site called Digital River. There not abandonware or betas, but they dont include a product key. Its just in case you lose your disk you can download it and use your OEM/Purchased key to activate. I did that before when XP was on Digital River.

Not sure if you care about me posting but office 2007 is on digital river as well. ( i will hide the links just in case )

Quote:

MSO Ultimate 2007 -

HIDDEN

MSO Professional 2007 -

HIDDEN

MSO Small Business 2007 -

HIDDEN

MSO Standard 2007 -

HIDDEN

MSO Home & Student 2007 -

HIDDEN

Bender

mrpijey wrote:

Bender, where did you get all those links?

And I won't put the ISOs up, I'll send away a private question to my contacts at Microsoft and ask them about distributing "official" ISO files (not DVD dumps), but to avoid any problems I won't put them up on BA until the OS is considered to be abandonware.

Bender wrote:

They're from Digital River, who is contracted to host the Microsoft Store and offers Windows 7 in their store.

skywalker06

mrpijey wrote:

I've been thinking about something and wanted to get some opinions...

Both Windows 7 and Vista can be installed without a license key. Both will enter a trial mode that can be extended (with a limit) until a time comes where you have to enter a valid license key for activation. Would this make any Win7/Vista version a demo version of sorts? If so, what objections would Microsoft really having of seeing the ISO files being shared on the net (as long as there is no key or crack included)?

I am wondering because if it were so that it was really a trial version or demo version then what would be the wrong of BetaArchive putting up the ISOs? After all you are allowed to run it in trial mode for a limited time, and we wouldn't provide any serial numbers or cracks with it. Just an original ISO, disc dumped or Technet/MSDN one.

This wouldn't apply to Windows XP of course since it asks for a serial during install and won't let you continue without it. I bet Windows 8 will act like Windows 7 and Vista tho.

What are your thoughts?

Yes you can install xp without a key but only with sp3 slipsteamed
Source http://www.techtalkz.com/windows-xp/486 ... p-sp3.html

john11

Bender wrote:

mrpijey wrote:

Bender, where did you get all those links?

And I won't put the ISOs up, I'll send away a private question to my contacts at Microsoft and ask them about distributing "official" ISO files (not DVD dumps), but to avoid any problems I won't put them up on BA until the OS is considered to be abandonware.

Bender wrote:

They're from Digital River, who is contracted to host the Microsoft Store and offers Windows 7 in their store.

Yeah, but the question is, how did you get the links? Probably not by typing in random urls. A simple google search would find other forums which havethe same links, including: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itproinstall/thread/c0e78d7a-883d-4caa-a8c0-1e127a14612a

PS. If anyone want's legal trials of XP/Vista/7 from Microsoft (as VHDs): http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11575
Website says:

Quote:

You can activate up to two “rearms” (type slmgr –rearm at the command prompt) which will extend the trial for another 30 days each time OR simply shutdown the VPC image and discard the changes you’ve made from undo disks to reset the image back to its initial state. By doing either of these methods, you can technically have a base image which never expires although you will never be able to permanently save any changes on these images for longer than 90 days.

spunker88

mrpijey wrote:

Bender, where did you get all those links?

And I won't put the ISOs up, I'll send away a private question to my contacts at Microsoft and ask them about distributing "official" ISO files (not DVD dumps), but to avoid any problems I won't put them up on BA until the OS is considered to be abandonware.

You can find them relatively easy, when I bought a Windows 7 $30 student upgrade I used a Digital River iso to install from. When I got a laptop that had bloatware preinstalled and no reinstallation disc, I used the iso from them with the COA sticker key on my laptop. The isos do have legit uses, but I'm not sure how Microsoft feels about making the links available.

maxtorix

Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 License document:

Quote:

8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the features included in the software edition you licensed. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not
• work around any technical limitations in the software;
• reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;
• use components of the software to run applications not running on the software;
• make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
• publish the software for others to copy;
• rent, lease or lend the software; or
• use the software for commercial software hosting services.

10. BACKUP COPY.
a. Media. If you acquired the software on a disc or other media, you may make one backup copy of the media. You may use it only to reinstall the software on the licensed computer.
b. Electronic Download. If you purchased and downloaded the software online, you may make one copy of the software on a disc or other media in order to install the software on a computer. You may also use it to reinstall the software on the licensed computer.

"downloaded the software online" Evan Microsoft cannot forbidden to you if you want to make more than one copy from their downloaded software. But for this topic that is not matter.

Now, in whole license text you cannot find string where says: "You can download software only from Microsoft websites (like MS downloads, Store, etc...)"

When we talk about cracking software or simply bypassing activation/validation that is something what always has been present, and always will exist on the black warez market, whether it is a alpha/beta build or for the final versions.

Do you think Softpedia, SourceForge, Download.com, and the sites like them have signed a special agreement with Microsoft for re-distrbution of their software - believe me they haven't.

Given the stated this is not much difference whether you let off the link for crack/activator for escrow version or the final version. Being on Beta Archive are not allowed any activators of any type for any versions of the operating systems, which means:
You never could have worsened the situation and the security of the side by adding the final RTM version on the BA FTP Server, and the same goes for final RTM versions of service packs.

res

I hope you will be right: this alone is ok for trial and other purposes.

gamelover101

This is a really confusing situation. If Microsoft OK'd free trial downloads, there'd probably be free ISOs availible for download.
there's also, as mentioned, the issue of having multiple components that can be used without activating Windows.

Where is the value in these products? :^)

WinPC

Microsoft does indeed offer free trial .ISO images for download, at least in some circles, however, that is because they are specifically licensed as "trial" versions.

Basically, from what I see, there really isn't any way to activate those copies - they'll expire no matter what, unless the activation scheme is disabled manually using the proper cracks.

----

Because of this, hosting those copies here would most likely be considered legal, since they are not distributed as "full" versions. However, hosting anything ripped from the actual media would still be considered "warez", since not only would it be taken from a copy that was officially released as a non-trial version, but it would also be activatable with a proper activation key, unlike the official trial versions that Microsoft offers for download, since those can't be activated with a proper activation key (unless they can, and somehow Microsoft allows users of such versions to purchase proper activation keys online, which I doubt - I mean, I could be wrong, but from what I see, they probably just expect the user to be aware of the consequences that occur as a result of using trial software).

So, technically, we could mirror whatever trial versions Microsoft has officially put up for download, but we still can't host anything ripped from the actual store bought/OEM media.

Also, gamelover101, trial versions can allow not only for the testing of a product in terms of actual functionality, but it can also serve for cases where temporary installations may be required, for example, to run certain software that may be incompatible with the user's current software setup, or also to test a new built PC, or even repair a current one, or also to aid in development of drivers and software products for the said product, without having to spend any money on purchasing it.

However, in place of that, I've always been able to download the latest pre-RTM/RTM "Escrow" builds of those products here to test those versions without purchasing them, however, I also understand that there are cases where the official RTM would be preferred (although there's probably also a way to convert those releases to Windows 7 Service Pack 1, basically resulting in a trial version of Windows 7 Service Pack 1).

Win7/Vista without license = demo?

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