BetaArchive Logo
Total Current Archive Size: 4765.54GB in 15409 files
Navigation Home Screenshots Image Uploader Server Info FTP Servers Wiki Forum RSS Feed Rules Please Donate
UP: 5d, 3h, 19m | CPU: 8% | MEM: 4785MB of 12279MB used
{The community for beta collectors}

Forum rules


Before you post, please make sure...

- ...your topic is related to betas or abandonware. If it is not, don't post it here. Better help sites exist else where.
- ...you have first used Google to look for an answer, and you have asked other people you know via other methods (IM, e-mail, etc).
- ...your question has not been asked before. Search the forum first before posting.

If you meet those criteria, go ahead and post your question. Be sure to provide as much information you can about the problem and how to recreate it. Also provide information on hardware and software if applicable.


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
Do you suggest I try running memtest again? Though I'm still waiting to get home to try cleaning the contacts.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:46 pm 
Pro Beta Collector
Pro Beta Collector
User avatar
Online

Joined
Mon May 09, 2011 7:13 pm

Posts
359

Location
Aosta Valley

Favourite OS
Windows XP Professional x64
hogsy wrote:
Aha I'll have to buy another one. I don't really have any spares laying around right now :?

Edit:
Just bought a handful which should hopefully arrive by Monday.


Nope, I had many laying around... I could give them to you as a gift as I have so many... and also many other parts for old machines... maybe soon I'll put something here on BA to see if anyone is interested is this old hardware...


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:59 pm 
Amateur Beta Collector
Amateur Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:51 pm

Posts
294

Location
/pt-BR

Favourite OS
6.1.7850.0
@zinamo: will you sell them?

_________________
Image


Top  Profile  YIM
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:01 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
Gave it a rub but it made no difference whatsoever. Any other suggestions? I have some new sticks on their way which I'll try out once they arrive.

Edit:
Might sound like a dumb question but is it normal for the paged memory to be 0mb in safe mode?

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:19 pm 
Amateur Beta Collector
Amateur Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:48 am

Posts
99

Favourite OS
Archlinux
paged memory doesnt reaelly have much to do with RAM


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:32 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
I know but I'd still like to know.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:47 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
Sorry for the bump but are there really no other suggestions?

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:06 pm 
1337 Beta Collector
1337 Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:56 am

Posts
6087
As far as I can tell, paged memory is virtual memory. It shouldn't be a problem with a 0MB page in Safe Mode.

_________________
Goodbye.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:13 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
Well I guess I'll just wait until the new sticks arrive, try those and see how it goes then :cry:

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:13 pm 
Newbie Beta Collector
Newbie Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Posts
30
It may not be that the RAM is bad, it could just be that the motherboard only supports 512MB through 2 256MB sticks or 1 256MB stick + 2 128MB sticks (but not a single 512MB stick).

Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Configure hard drive as single/master on primary ATA -- nothing on slave
-Configure only one CD drive as single/master on secondary ATA -- nothing on slave
-Unplug floppy drive (only if can boot from CD)
-Unplug all extra PCI, AGP, ISA devices (if mobo has onboard VGA, use that and remove graphics card).
-Only use one stick of RAM
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.

Good luck with it, I don't think I missed anything.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:43 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
jjasper wrote:
Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.

Good luck with it, I don't think I missed anything.


Removed everything I've done so far. Not sure if I've mentioned it yet or if it even helps but sometimes without the Windows 98 Setup CD inside the machine it occasionaly restarts when it reaches that point I showed in my first post, when it does this the screen flickers in a weird way for a few moments. Sometimes it doesn't restart and comes up with a "Windows Protection" warning. Pressing space a few times and then it says something about changing stacks (already looked into this and changing it doesn't do anything). These do sometimes happen with the CD in but it happens more frequently (almost everytime) without the CD.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:06 pm 
Newbie Beta Collector
Newbie Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Posts
30
hogsy wrote:

Removed everything I've done so far. Not sure if I've mentioned it yet or if it even helps but sometimes without the Windows 98 Setup CD inside the machine it occasionaly restarts when it reaches that point I showed in my first post, when it does this the screen flickers in a weird way for a few moments. Sometimes it doesn't restart and comes up with a "Windows Protection" warning. Pressing space a few times and then it says something about changing stacks (already looked into this and changing it doesn't do anything). These do sometimes happen with the CD in but it happens more frequently (almost everytime) without the CD.


You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it's a setting in the BIOS causing the issue (I have had an unstable computer before with memtest throwing up errors that was related to a BIOS setting and not actually bad RAM).

I really would try a hard reset of the BIOS with the jumper on the motherboard (failing that, try to load fail safe defaults in the BIOS) and see how you go.

Power supply could still be the issue -- seen many unstable computers due to bad power supply. If you have access to another, try that.

When all other avenues are exhausted (and if it still does the same thing) I would boot into DOS and flash the BIOS to the latest possible -- you would need to know the motherboard manufacturer and model to find the BIOS on the internet. It is risky if the computer is unstable (you may end up bricking the motherboard if the computer freezes or restarts in the middling of flashing -- but if the thing is unusable anyway, you don't have much too much to lose).

Another thought that occurred to me (although I think it's highly unlikely due to memtest throwing up errors) is a bad Windows 98 disc, or if it's a burnt copy, maybe the cd drive doesn't like the brand of CD-R (some older drives are very picky).

EDIT: Just thought I should check... it's not overclocked is it, because that should only be done when the computer is running stable.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:35 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
I tried setting it to the safe defaults sometime ago but that had no effect and I also tried following a guide which supposedly gave the optimal settings for the BIOS but that also had no effect (though it made the screen rather weird). As for resetting the BIOS with the jumper, not totally sure what that is but I'll look into it and give it a shot. Power supply shouldn't be bad as I was initially using it with another computer (which ran perfectly) but I do have another spare so I might as well give that a try. No it's not overclocked.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:12 am 
Newbie Beta Collector
Newbie Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Posts
30
hogsy wrote:
I tried setting it to the safe defaults sometime ago but that had no effect and I also tried following a guide which supposedly gave the optimal settings for the BIOS but that also had no effect (though it made the screen rather weird). As for resetting the BIOS with the jumper, not totally sure what that is but I'll look into it and give it a shot. Power supply shouldn't be bad as I was initially using it with another computer (which ran perfectly) but I do have another spare so I might as well give that a try. No it's not overclocked.


Regardng clearing BIOS with motherboard jumper, see http://www.dewassoc.com/support/bios/bios_password.htm
under the heading of 'Motherboard Jumpers'

Basically, it just clears every single setting and resets to default (can be used if BIOS has been password protected or overclocked to the point of not even posting). I know those scenarios aren't relevant, but worth a try.

Don't know if you've had the opportunity to try different RAM yet, if not that's definitely something worth trying.

Aside from riskily flashing the BIOS on unstable hardware, I'm not sure I have any more ideas.
It would seem that you have ruled out almost every possible piece of hardware other than motherboard or CPU.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:22 am 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
Well like I said I'm still waiting for these other sticks to arrive though they're taking long enough to even dispatch :?
Tomorrow when I get back from college I'll try clearing the BIOS ;)

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:05 pm 
1337 Beta Collector
1337 Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:22 am

Posts
2382
........


Last edited by QuiescentWonder on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:22 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
You read the thread ?
Because I said I had already done that and it made no difference, I only have one stick of RAM and I'm currently waiting for some "new" ones to arrive.


8-)

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:27 pm 
1337 Beta Collector
1337 Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:28 pm

Posts
4137

Favourite OS
Mountain Lion, 6730, 8400
By the way, Linux should run even on faulty RAM, you can try that if you won't succeed. But yeah, it's good when you can try different hardware, still.

_________________
Longhorn Packet 1.21 - Solves most of the problems with Longhorn Setup


Top  Profile  YIM
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:23 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
jjasper wrote:
Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.


Updated.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:19 pm 
Newbie Beta Collector
Newbie Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Posts
30
hogsy wrote:
jjasper wrote:
Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.


Updated.


That RAM is taking its time isn't it :)

I'm not sure what motherboard or chipset you have, but back in the day... I did have an Abit SE6 motherboard based on the the Intel 815e chipset (circa. 2000, 2001).

Thinking about your problem triggered a vague memory I had about my old motherboard. So I found the user manual for my old Abit SE6 and it states:

"Supports up to 512MB MAX. (32, 64, 128, 256MB SDRAM)"

So I could put in 512MB, but not as a single stick. It needed a combination of 2x256MB or (1x256MB + 2x128MB) to max the ram to 512MB.

I'm unsure if that was specific to that particular motherboard or a more general thing for motherboards of that era with the Intel 815e chipset. However, I do know that 512MB is the max that the Intel 815e chipset can handle.

Of course, all that may be irrelevant if you don't have the 815e chipset...

Anyway, fingers crossed its just the RAM.


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:19 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
jjasper wrote:
Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.


Updated again finally...

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:10 pm 
Newbie Beta Collector
Newbie Beta Collector
Offline

Joined
Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:10 pm

Posts
30
hogsy wrote:
jjasper wrote:
Put one smaller stick in (ie: 32 or 64 or 128 or 256) and run memtest to see if it gets through. If it does, continue to install windows and see if that works properly -- if it doesn't, it's not a RAM issue.

If problem still persists, steps I would take.
1) Blow all dust out of computer with compressed air.
2) Visually inspect the motherboard and CPU, any bulging or leaking capacitors (replace if necessary), any obvious burnt PCB?
3) Test power supply with multimeter to ensure all is well, if not then replace
4) Try installing with only essential hardware (below).
-Reset BIOS to defaults using jumper on mobo
5) If problem still persists, try different CD drive.
6) If problem still persists, try different (smaller size) hard drive.
7) Replace all IDE ribbons.
8) If problem still persists, try different CPU.
9) If problem still persists, flash BIOS by booting up in DOS (do after everything else to avoid possibility of bricking due to bad flash on unstable hardware).
10) Failing all that, it is now safe to assume your motherboard is stuffed.


Updated again finally...


Seriously... still? lol

I assume memtest is still throwing out errors?

Unless it's a combination of some of the things you've ruled out, it seems to be narrowed down to either the CPU or motherboard... or both (I'd be leaning more towards the motherboard than CPU as they tend to fail more commonly). Only other thing I can suggest is reseating the CPU and taking a closer look at BIOS settings (things like ram voltage, timings, power saving features).

Computers of that era did tend to be a bit more flogged than computers of previous eras because overclocking became significantly more mainstream (rather than hobbyist) due to options in BIOS (instead of jumpers or switches on the motherboard).

If you're at the end of the rope and feel like you can do no more with it than replace it (and no-one else has any other suggestions), you may as well risk bricking it by flashing the BIOS from DOS. If you do get a replacement, it may be worth getting one with CPU still attached to cover your bases.

Sorry to have been no help. :)


Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:48 am 
1337 Beta Collector
1337 Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:22 am

Posts
2382
........


Last edited by QuiescentWonder on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top  Profile
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:01 pm 
Guru Beta Collector
Guru Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Posts
952

Location
UK

Favourite OS
Ubuntu 13.04
You're still not reading the thread.

I have already tested a 256mb stick of ram, I have already checked the PSU and tested it with a spare and I don't want to use Linux as that's not the point.

_________________
BE BRAVE


Top  Profile  WWW
 PostPost subject: Re: Need help with old desktop + Windows 98        Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:35 pm 
1337 Beta Collector
1337 Beta Collector
User avatar
Offline

Joined
Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:22 am

Posts
2382
........


Last edited by QuiescentWonder on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top  Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GoCheckINC and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

All views expressed in these forums are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of the BetaArchive site owner.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Copyright © 2006-2013

 

Sitemap | XML | RSS