What a stupid thing to say. What if his parents don't have the money to buy it? What if their financial situation isn't well off enough to purchase it? This just makes you seem like a snobby little rich boy who doesn't have to worry about anything because mommy and daddy will buy it.


What if they don't? You're just assuming here, now assume that they don't. What's next? Is piracy okay now?

Not all parents are made of money, and what if the college doesn't offer it?

Edit: whoops, Derf beat me to it.

Snobby little rich boy? When I was your age, I lived in China and I had to carry ~50 pound of groceries from the Guangzhou, 40 miles to where we lived. So I wouldn't exactly say I had as "good" of a life as you spoiled children these days do, but enough of those irrelevant stories.

1. I assumed that he was in college since he said "semester of books"
2. If the parents have 30,000 USD to send him to college, they definitely can buy him a copy of Windows.
Also, almost every educational institution offer Windows for free, since Microsoft has a agreement with most of them to offer them for a very reduced price (like $20).

Who says they're paying the $30,000? Who says it's not almost entirely on student loands? Who says he's not going to be paying for his education his entire life because his parents can't?
And again, what if Microsoft doesn't have an agreement with his school? Is piracy okay?

And btw, China sounds like it sucks.

If he is on a loan, I'm sure the loan allows for books and stuff, unless it only covers tuition. In the other case, then buy a "Get Genuine Kit" for only 100$. That allows you to turn your un-licensed product in to a fully licensed genuine one.
---
That was PRC in the 80s. Well, in the rural areas at least.

Gheeze, this kid is a struggling STUDENT. Do you think he's made of money? $100 is months of food.

If the student is on a loan paying him/herself for the tuition, do you really think they'll be paying even $100 to get genuine Windows? I wouldn't think so since they'd be trying to save every penny they possibly could to pay off the loan.

Exactly.
I start my first semester this fall and I know exactly how much I'm paying a month to keep myself there (And how much money i'll have to earn this summer so that my parent's wont go back in the red because of me)
School costs $27,000 WITHOUT Room and board
It's nearly $30,000 with, and my total "Aid Package" is $30,937
They give me $1,500 to buy books, travel 600 miles with all my crap, and pay for meals... I'd rather risk getting a "This software is not genuine" box every time I start my PC than not buy a book, or go hungry for a few weeks... (And I doubt my GF would accept that either)
Piracy, in my book, is a way to help the average consumer expierance what they normally couldn't. If my neighbor were to buy a new car, and I happened to like the car, I would much rather find a way to copy said car into my own driveway instead of moving it there and angering said neighbor. the same happens with piracy. Instead of moving the product from one physical place to another leaving someone at a loss, there is no loss to anyone but the end user as they will end up spending their time downloading it, their own blank disk burning it and their own time patching up whatever anti-piracy crap was placed in it.
Same goes for movies. My GF told me yesterday that she'd appreciate it if I didn't "steal" all my movies and instead would go to the local movie store... I kindly replied that the guy at the movie store isn't loosing any money from me downloading the movie because I never planned to rent the movie, I never do want to rent the movie, and I would have just ripped the movie from my uncle's Netflix subscription except I had to be home for dinner...

Back to college and Windows: Get a IT Pro Momentum subscription. It's not piracy, but it's still frowned upon. and yet... it just seems nicer when you can't find the product key on Google... And it's free... you wait about as long as downloading Win7 on Dialup, but it's worth it.

Stop the flaming people, or I will lock the topic.

these things of piracy make this topic a flamewar.
is better when these things happen,i'll be away or trying to stop it.

Paying off a student loan for the rest of their life? I'm sorry, but that defeats the entire purpose of going to college. They point of college is to get a degree so more companies will see your talent and hire you, which obviously means you will have a higher wage. Now, I think that 50,000 /yr of post-tax money is enough to pay a 30,000 loan.

And who says that you can't have a job while at college?

If said student has a job while at college, he/she will be using every penny they can to pay off the loan and bills and such.

It happens all the time. People spend their entire lives paying off student loans. You may think it's stupid, or that it's unreasonable, but it's true and it happens. And what if you can't get a job? You're just assuming that the student can get a job. Let's assume he can't. Is piracy okay now?

The purpose of going to school is to educate yourself, it may be for the purpose of finding a better paying job or just for the knowledge. That sometimes mean that you need to spend money before you earn it. You may think that schools are free and high paying jobs are available at any time of the day but that's not how the world works. There are many people that wants a good education and they will pay for it. Even if it's for the rest of their lives. Not everyone has a hidden stash of gold in their basement that can pay for a proper education.

Some people have 2-3 part time jobs just to sustain themselves while they go to school. All for the remote chance to better their lives with a roof over their head and a proper education that *perhaps* may open some doors in the future.

Back on the topic: It's really not a matter of if piracy is right or wrong. There's no nation on the planet where piracy is supported nor endorsed. Legally it is wrong but laws can be changed. So can attitudes. Software is pirated because it's possible and at a minimal risk and cost. If people could copy houses, cars and gasoline then everyone on the planet would have a house, car and means to travel the world. Regardless if they paid for it or not. But houses, cars and gasoline are all physical objects and can not be copied without serious investments in raw materials. With software there is no such problem. Which is also why software can never be treated as physical objects.

Man has traded the right to use physical objects since we climbed the trees for a living, but we've traded the right to use computer software only the last 30 years or so. It will take a very long time before we find a balance in how we regard software and its value. And we are right now in the middle of a software revolution. Computers will not die because of piracy. Software development will not end because of piracy. Why? Because human kind has the ability to use computers and to use computers we need to make software. We expand our minds with computers. Just as oil painting and music created with instruments will not cease because of Photoshop and Cakewalk (music software) software development will not cease because there are other means to create and copy it.

It will change many attitudes and it will force some software developers out of business. But it will also open new ways for other developers to develop and distribute software. All we need is time to find a balance and let the market sort itself out. Until that time people will continue copy software and there's really nothing any of us can do about it. Except for accepting the fact and do our part to find a solution. And that without sacrificing ourselves in the process.

in my country purpose of college is just paper
70% of "students" that graduate are dumber than tree
yet they weasel themselfs into state paying companies and they have better
conditions there than going to private people for job

rich ones just pay illegaly to get colege diplomas and master diplomas
(like my [censored] mob neighbour)

Indeed, companies need to change their attitudes...
Companies need to be more agressive towards those uploading torrents.

For example, the one time my software got on "Denomoid," I just picked up the IPs and foward them to my lawyers (which is what killed the first, and last torrent of _MY_ software). Of course, I never took legal action against the users of the torrent. Only got their internet permanently disconnected.

And to the college issue: If you paid off a loan for the rest of your life, that would defeat the purpose of going to college.

As mrpijey said, the purpose of college for many is to become a more well rounded person with a more educational background.

Yes, but there are multiple purposes. If you are going to college anyway, why not go to a respected one in the field that you plan to work in? You educate yourself, and significantly increase your chances of a good job.

Have you never heard of a liberal arts education? :\ What if I seek one of those?

Well what will you minor (or sometime if you double major, major) in?

The university one may wish to go to doesn't have a program for minors, so it'd simply be the general studies program and the Liberal Arts Major. Is piracy okay here, since he's only trying to get a good education?

You must be quite naive to think that every torrent site will bow before you because you come waiving some fine print... I know at least 6 sites that mirror Demonoid and TPB and they will not even acknowledge your existence. So I can say with 100% certainty that your torrent is still rolling around on the net, if your software is of any interest to the crowd on the net otherwise it will eradicate itself by inactivity and lack of seeders.

TPB, Demonoid etc are just the tip of the iceberg. It's the public sites that keeps the rest in check. The real action happens just below the surface and that activity is far greater than those of on the surface sites.


We've already established that this reasoning is wrong because you don't go to college to pay as little as possible, you go to college to educate yourself and give yourself a positive edge on the market, which does includes jobs with better pays. But people will pay dearly for it if they want it.


Don't you contradict yourself here? First you say that paying off a life long college loan defeat the purpose of going to college, then you ask why not go to a respected school while you're at it? The respected ones are the most expensive ones and also the hardest ones to get in to. But when you do will pay for it. Even if it means for the rest of your life. Not everyone can get into Harvard, MIT or even the local community college through daddys checkbook...

But in the end it's pointless debating if piracy is OK or not because it's not OK. But it still happens and the question is how far the corporations will go to stop it, and how far the citizens will go to accept what the corporations do. In the meantime software will still be made and people will still copy it. Same goes with other crimes really, they will never get eradicated but in some cases it's understandable why it happens.

And as I said before, software needs a completely new way of thinking and it will take some time before we manage to find a middle ground on how to define intellectual property and how to treat it legally.

By my point of view here in brazil we pay 390R$(Pratically 190 US$) For a windows 7 home premium and for a 7 ultimate 700 R$ (almost 450 US$) and microsoft wants to us buy original stuff it's pratically imposible with that price.
And office ohh man the prefossional edtion it's 1.600.00 R$ (almost 800 US$) a simple WT* How in hell they want to us buy that office maan and lowest version Home and student who it's the crappiest version ever that only cames with word powerpoint and excel costs 200 R$ (100 US$) It does not make any sense buy such an limited version for that price.

And by the way this false moralism doesnt change the fact that microsoft it's only this well know because of the piracy
if it wasnt the piracy we would be using a comodore 1.000.000.00 or Mac os X and we would be making of the guy that were using windows.

The problem is that if the torrent sites dont take it down, then I just add the torrent to my torrent client and take down a list of IPs and have their connections permanently disconnected, and then theres no seeders...

Stop living in a fantasy world. That will have absolutely no effect, and if you knew anything about how torrents work and how IP:s are distributed you would know this. Frankly, you should spend more time worrying about your business and continue developing your software to make it better for your customers rather than chasing down some kids. But hey, it's your time and life. And it's not like those kids will pay you anyway.

Add to the fact that most ISP:s will not give a dying rat if you come and want their customers connections permanently disconnected. They don't know who you are nor do they care. And they care even less if you're in a different country. Microsoft themselves couldn't take down the torrent sites if they wanted, and you are eons away from the resources Microsoft, Apple, Adobe etc has.

The major companies know this, so they turn this to their advantage instead. Or they focus on the right things instead.


That's highly speculative. If MS weren't a major player then someone else would. Apple most likely. Or even Commodore if they hadn't fouled up their marketing.

So what if we would have Amigas or Macintoshes instead? Then everyone would have pirate copied AmigaOS XP and AmigaOS Server 2008 and then we would still have the same discussion here, but with different names.

Microsoft are big because they gave the people what they wanted. And piracy did help spread their product to the poor as well, making it a defacto standard among everyone that used computers. So indeed on some scale Microsoft has piracy to thank for their success. Same with Adobe. Not with Apple however since their software is tied with their hardware, and you don't pirate hardware as easily.