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 PostPost subject: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Hello everyone!

I'm just wondering if it is possible to install and run Windows NT 4.0 for PowerPC natively on a Power Mac? I recently bought a Power Macintosh G3 Blue and White, and I've tested every Apple OS that is possible to run in this machine (from Mac OS 8.5, throught Mac OS X Server v1.0 and at the end Mac OS X Tiger v10.4) and I decided to test other OSs that are not from Apple, beside Linux, I want to try something from Microsoft for different platforms.

So, since I have a PowerPC based Macintosh and there is a Windows NT version for PowerPC, both can understand each other like "Boot Camp for PowerPC"?


Last edited by yntzl on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:56 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
Unfortunately not, PowerPC equipped Macs doesn't have the regular BIOS that was required, PPC Macs use something called Open Firmware which was completely different and not compatible at all. Boot Camp as you think of it didn't even exist back then. Windows NT for PowerPC only worked on specific IBM-manufactured machines such as the PowerSeries and RS/6000 models. But never on Apple Macs as their sorrounding architecture differed too much. Same main CPU yes, but everything else completely different.


I was aware of Open Firmware but I thought that Windows would boot anyway. So, since it doesn't run nativaly, virtualization is the way to go. NT PPC would run well on QEMU PREP?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:10 pm 
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I don't think that will work, and even if it would it would be horribly slow.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:59 pm 
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NT for PPC requires the ARC console bios, which QEMU does not emulate in the PREP implementation it has.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Well, for Windows to boot (or any other OS on any other platform) it does need to support the base BIOS system, regardless if it's EFI, OpenBIOS, BIOS, Open Firmware etc.. and Windows NT PPC doesn't support Open Firmware to start with, nor does it support the rest of the architecture.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:52 pm 
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In case anyone wants it, here's a bunch of stuff relating to PPC PReP including a number of ARC floppy images (arc*.dd)

http://ps-2.kev009.com/pccbbs/powerpc/

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:22 pm 
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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Zeta_0114 wrote:
Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:48 pm 
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I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:55 pm 
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deBop wrote:
I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.


I highly doubt that would work :P

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Wheatley wrote:
deBop wrote:
I wonder if you could get it to work with Yaboot? It would be interesting but I'd doubt it would work.


I highly doubt that would work :P


Yeah, I guess I'm just desperate. :mrgreen:


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:33 pm 
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yntzl wrote:
Zeta_0114 wrote:
Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)

It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 pm 
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kinokijuf wrote:
yntzl wrote:
Zeta_0114 wrote:
Interesting... I never thought that Windows NT was even compiled on PPC.. thank you for the upkeep!

Windows NT 3.1 was compiled for x86, DEC Alpha and MIPS, in the version 3.51 was added support for PowerPC. NT supported these architectures up to the version 4.0. Early betas of Windows NT 5.0, officialy called Windows 2000, had support for IA-64 (Intel Itanium) and DEC Alpha, but the retail release was complied only for x86. Windows XP (NT 5.1) was originally compiled for x86 and IA-64, the support for x64 (x86-64) was added in 2003. Windows Vista (NT 6.0) dropped the support for Itanium systems and remained this way until Windows 8 (NT 6.2) when support to ARM was added. The version of Windows 8 that runs in ARM based systems is called Windows RT. :)

It was Windows 8 which dropped support for ia64, not Vista.
Here is some further information on the matter from Wikipedia's page:
Quote:
With the introduction of the Intel Itanium architecture (IA-64), Microsoft released new versions of Windows to support it. Itanium versions of Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 were released at the same time as their mainstream x86 counterparts. Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, released in 2005, is the last Windows client operating systems to support Itanium. Windows Server line continued to support this platform until Windows Server 2012; Windows Server 2008 R2 is the last Windows operating system to support Itanium architecture.
According to this page, no client operating systems later than Windows XP supported the Intel Itanium architecture, while the Windows Server line continued supporting it as recently as Windows Server 2008 R2, whereas support was dropped entirely starting with Windows Server 2012.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:43 am 
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I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:32 am 
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binaryone wrote:
I was wondering if there are any Windows software available for the PPC even you are able to install on a PowerMac..?

Little to none. It will run 16 bit Windows apps though in NTVDM. From what I know there ARE compilers available (Visual C++ Risc Edition 4.0) but because PowerPC hardware that WILL run nt is so obscure, I doubt you will find much software unless someone emulates it (MIPS NT4)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows NT for PowerPC on a Power Mac?        Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:13 pm 
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Finding stuff for PowerPC is quite a bit harder than MIPS because it was only supported for such a short time.

There should be IE3 and WinImage at least, and of course the Resource Kit. Other than that, nothing comes to my mind right now.


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