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 PostPost subject: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:08 am 
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Now, I'm not trying to get anyone's hopes up, so let me preface this post with that; however, I just wanted to share with you all that I've been doing some intense research, and I've located a number of people directly involved with Neptune and Odyssey prototyping back in 1998-99. I'm in the process of carefully crafting emails to inquire about obtaining any old bits they may have left laying around. I may not be able to share anything (and I won't without their express permission, or if I pay an arm and a leg for something), but perhaps I could confirm some things if they'll at least speak with me.

Like I said, don't get your hopes up, but I wanted to let you know one of the many projects I'm working on to breathe some fresh air into my Windows collection (and maybe yours, if I'm able to share some of what I hope to obtain). They may all see my emails and not think twice about deleting them, but that's the worst they can do, right? ^^ Naturally, I'm doing this with more than just Neptune/Odyssey, but they're the two I'm the most excited about at the moment. I'll share more about all of this when I have news to share!

-Stephen

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:21 am 
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Hello,

Thanks for your hard work. I hope you will get a reply soon. Good luck! :)

Off-topic, are you ReflectaX from OSBetaArchive?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:30 am 
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anstein99 wrote:
Off-topic, are you ReflectaX from OSBetaArchive?


Yep, that's me! :cool: Although, whatever you've heard/know/remember of me from back then (in terms of me being confrontational, egotistical, or whatever else) is a far cry from who I am now, almost 10 years later, lol. Regardless, I still love Windows betas after all this time! ^^

-Stephen

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:28 am 
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Looking forward to hearing about this.

Anything about Triton?

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:58 am 
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Sounds interesting... :)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Thanks for you hard work... I hope that at least you get some info to share with us :)

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Hi RefectiaX. I don't think you remember me but we spoke on my old MSN before. I did some research a long time ago that in Microsoft Anti-Trust documents, there was to be a release of Windows codenamed Triton after Neptune. Details here http://www.betaarchive.com/wiki/index.p ... s%3ATriton including link to source at the bottom of the WIKI page I created.

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 PostPost subject: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:28 pm 
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"Triton" was just a Service Pack for Neptune, and not a full release of Windows, yet it's still interesting nonetheless, just as other Service Pack releases of Windows are interesting.

Anyway, if it's at all possible to obtain any Neptune and/or Odyssey builds, it would be greatly appreciated, since we have been trying to locate them for many years now, and especially with all of the controversy surrounding them, it would greatly help us if we had any hard evidence for what both projects were actually supposed to be.

Finally, I also have something that you might find interesting: Windows NT 5.0 Build 1386 (one of the very earliest builds ever to be compiled, apparently from November 1996, and also apparently forked from the same post-RTM Windows NT 4.0 build). Kenneth (formerly known as Windows OCManage) found the remains of this build on the hard drive of a Sony VAIO that he purchased, although it was, by this point, just the kernel and HAL.DLL, though he was able to replace the missing files with copies from Windows NT 4.0 Check-Debug (the copy that he recompiled in July 2009), not to mention that he also added the Windows NT 5.0 WINNT.BMP back in.

This build doesn't stand out from its roots much, however, I still have a copy of it stored on my internal server, if you want it, that is.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:47 pm 
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WinPC wrote:
"Triton" was just a Service Pack for Neptune, and not a full release of Windows, yet it's still interesting nonetheless, just as other Service Pack releases of Windows are interesting.


It was NOT just a service pack. It was an actual OS planned to follow after Neptune.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:50 pm 
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WinPC wrote:
"Triton" was just a Service Pack for Neptune, and not a full release of Windows, yet it's still interesting nonetheless, just as other Service Pack releases of Windows are interesting.

Anyway, if it's at all possible to obtain any Neptune and/or Odyssey builds, it would be greatly appreciated, since we have been trying to locate them for many years now, and especially with all of the controversy surrounding them, it would greatly help us if we had any hard evidence for what both projects were actually supposed to be.

Finally, I also have something that you might find interesting: Windows NT 5.0 Build 1386 (one of the very earliest builds ever to be compiled, apparently from November 1996, and also apparently forked from the same post-RTM Windows NT 4.0 build). Kenneth (formerly known as Windows OCManage) found the remains of this build on the hard drive of a Sony VAIO that he purchased, although it was, by this point, just the kernel and HAL.DLL, though he was able to replace the missing files with copies from Windows NT 4.0 Check-Debug (the copy that he recompiled in July 2009), not to mention that he also added the Windows NT 5.0 WINNT.BMP back in.

This build doesn't stand out from its roots much, however, I still have a copy of it stored on my internal server, if you want it, that is.


If you would have actually read the WIKI page I created, and the documents with the information included, you would have realized. Don't make 5 paragraph assumptions without even reading things. Sheesh. Triton was an Operating System in the making/planning. Not a service pack.

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon ... X07297.pdf

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:53 pm 
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I completely agree with Giantsteen on this subject. And I wouldn't hope too much for any builds...


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:06 pm 
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WinPC wrote:
"Triton" was just a Service Pack for Neptune, and not a full release of Windows, yet it's still interesting nonetheless, just as other Service Pack releases of Windows are interesting.

Anyway, if it's at all possible to obtain any Neptune and/or Odyssey builds, it would be greatly appreciated, since we have been trying to locate them for many years now, and especially with all of the controversy surrounding them, it would greatly help us if we had any hard evidence for what both projects were actually supposed to be.

Finally, I also have something that you might find interesting: Windows NT 5.0 Build 1386 (one of the very earliest builds ever to be compiled, apparently from November 1996, and also apparently forked from the same post-RTM Windows NT 4.0 build). Kenneth (formerly known as Windows OCManage) found the remains of this build on the hard drive of a Sony VAIO that he purchased, although it was, by this point, just the kernel and HAL.DLL, though he was able to replace the missing files with copies from Windows NT 4.0 Check-Debug (the copy that he recompiled in July 2009), not to mention that he also added the Windows NT 5.0 WINNT.BMP back in.

This build doesn't stand out from its roots much, however, I still have a copy of it stored on my internal server, if you want it, that is.

Uh hi. Minor update = +.1
For example, as you say LOLOMGWTFBBQ WINDOWS 2000 NT5.0 PROFESSIONAL SP4 BUILD 2915 and Windows XP (5.1 ofc)
tl;dr, there's a difference between revision, build, minor version and major version.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:36 pm 
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First response from someone I emailed:

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I'm afraid I don't have any artifacts from those dark Longhorn days. I mostly remember Longhorn as a series of slow, crappy builds and constant WinFS schema updates. In retrospect it was fascinating to work on though.


This just goes to show that what we love was someone's job, and there's no doubt that Longhorn builds really were pretty slow and crappy, lol. This is the first person I emailed, so, at least I'm already getting responses! More when it comes in. :)

-Stephen

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:41 pm 
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That's great, keep up the good work... ;)

PS: To anyone still doubting in Triton being an OS, please see this document, page 67 (document pages, not Adobe Reader pages). Look at the charts and tell me what you see... ;)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:04 pm 
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DeFacto wrote:
PS: To anyone still doubting in Triton being an OS, please see this document, page 67 (document pages, not Adobe Reader pages). Look at the charts and tell me what you see... ;)


Indeed. Pages 25 and 26 (document pages, not Adobe pages) are quite telling as well. I remember as soon as this case happened and all these documents were released. So much amazing information, lol. Anyway, I'll inquire about Triton if I hear back from any of these Neptune/Odyssey people. I assume Triton is akin to Blackcomb, in that there was nothing to build since it would have been a continuation of a project that was ultimately cancelled. Perhaps Triton was nothing more than a code name on a timeline, but it would be cool if there was some prototype/conceptual artwork done for the time period, though.

-Stephen

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Microsoft totally went too far ahead in planning.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:26 pm 
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giantsteen wrote:
Microsoft totally went too far ahead in planning.


Yet I don't understand one thing: I read somewhere that Neptune was canceled because it was behind schedule with the development... And so they killed it and started a new project (Whistler). Now where's the logic in that? You fix something that is behind schedule by canceling it and starting a new project (which in fact causes additional delays)?


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:02 pm 
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The fighting got boring, so I cleaned this thread.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:54 pm 
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It does seem to me at least that NT5.5 was the escape pod that Microsoft needed on paper for investors to see the company really planning to move forward and dump DOS entirely. They even made some builds of the product, but in the end, it was just a futile attempt at replacing the consumer OS with a half-baked collection of ideal features and technologies. I have no doubt that Triton would have been NT 5.51, just as NT5.1 (XP) was a slight improvement of NT5. Ideally, NepTune would have replaced NT5 and its DOS counterparts at the same time, instead of the staggered plan they ended up with. These documents show the ideal path to escape supporting DOS-based OS's, but obviously do not show how it all played out.

If this plan had worked out, we would have seen Windows 8-like functionality 10 years earlier than we are seeing it. I throughouly believe that NepTune and Triton would have been the 7 and 8 we needed for the early years of the 21st century. Instead, we ended up with sub-par featureless OS's, which have finally been ditched for more future technology. Then again, thinking in hindsight, it's always perfect - the plan not taken always seems better, but who knows what sorts of ill fate that NepTune/Triton could have faced had they been released as Microsoft envisioned.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:18 am 
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jimmsta wrote:
If this plan had worked out, we would have seen Windows 8-like functionality 10 years earlier than we are seeing it.

There is nothing about metro in the text.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:24 am 
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You only think of Metro when hearing the word "Windows 8"? Because it's not just about Metro...


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:24 am 
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DeFacto wrote:
You only think of Metro when hearing the word "Windows 8"?

I don't see any differences with 7. The kernel seems not to be changed.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:27 am 
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Let's not derail another topic, but I will assume you haven't tried any builds or read anything about it, as you are so wrong...


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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:39 am 
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DeFacto wrote:
Let's not derail another topic, but I will assume you haven't tried any builds or read anything about it, as you are so wrong...

Prove me wrong in the PM.
8 was "inspired" by apple igadgets that didn't exist that time.

On topic: i would say, if everything had gone by the plan, Longorn would have been released. Longhorn features practically all the best of XP and the best of NT 6.x

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 PostPost subject: Re: Windows Neptune, Odyssey, Longhorn, and more        Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:46 am 
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Can we stay on topic please guys?

Thanks.


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