I own many desktops from a Gateway from 2000 to a Dell Inspiron 660 from 2012, And here's something i've noticed, OEM Tower PCs SUCK, And by OEM Tower PCs i'm referring to Desktops with an OEM Brand logo shoved into a Desktop Tower case with cheap Chinese components, Low Price tag, And absolutely [censored] performance

My 2 main desktops ATM are a Dell Inspiron 660 (OEM Tower from 2012) and an HP DC7800 (Business-Grade Desktop from 2008), I've had the HP a lot longer than i had the Dell, The only issues i had with it was a memory issue when some idiot attempted to use twice the amount of Memory than what the motherboard could support, Which was fixable by replacing the memory sticks, There are some dents on the case, And that's all i could remember

NOW, let's take a look at the more modern Dell Inspiron 660, I've used this thing everyday, Let's see the issues i have

1. The CPU constantly gets trashed by the AV program that was originally on here which i removed now
2. Explorer has some issues with loading thumbnails, And some refuse to load
3. The front panel cover for the USB Ports and the 3-in-1 Card reader is broken, Therefore i have to use tape to hold the damn thing on

Also note that the DC7800 was around $1500 when it was new and the Inspiron 660 was $500 when it was new, And there's a 4-year difference between the 2 machines, And no, These issues aren't Dell-Exclusive, I've seen them on many other machines, Especially Consumer-Grade HP Pavilion machines

Comparsion between the 2 machines

Dell CPU:Intel Core i5 3330 3.0 GHz
HP CPU:Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz

Dell RAM:8GB DDR3
HP RAM:4GB DDR2

Dell Video Card:Intel HD Graphics
HP Video Card:Intel GMA 3100

Dell OS:Windows 8 Pro x64
HP OS:Windows 7 Ultimate x64

So, The Dell has superior specs, Yet it runs slower than a Pentium III 1 GHz running Windows XP

Anyone else have similar experiences?

Protip: Pull a Rioter. It generally makes OEM machines a lot quicker by removing bloatware from them. Oh and a good HDD helps.

You know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of when we used to still purchase eMachines systems. I remember their systems, and the fate of each and every one of them - it was basically problem after problem after problem after problem!

First system (May 1999 to May 2005):
Our first one was one that we purchased in around May 1999. It was an eMachines eTower 400ix, running Windows 98 and Works 99. We purchased it from a place known as "Circuit City" (despite having first seen it at CompUSA), and the computer and monitor came in two separate packages, a green one for the system unit, and an orange one for the monitor.

Well, when we first tried it out, we couldn't get the keyboard to work. When we sent it back, it turned out that apparently, the keyboard was bad, and so they replaced it.

The first several years otherwise weren't so bad as far as actual reliability was concerned, but there was one particular incident in around April 2001 where my Father told me to tell my sister that my Mother "smelled something burning", and it turned out that the 15 inch monitor was apparently overheating (probably due to lack of decent ventilation). So we switched it out with an old SuperCOM SuperTRON SVGA monitor that we had lying around until we were finally able to replace it with a Proview 17 inch model.

Then the system continued running that way until around July 2003 when it just started suddenly shutting off in the middle of someone's work. It turned out that it had a failing cooling fan, but we were eventually able to get it replaced. Even worse, at around the same time, the replacement monitor also stopped working, so we had to have it replaced with a Digital (referring to Digital Equipment Corporation) model.

That system continued being used heavily throughout late 2003, 2004, and early 2005, until all of our older main Internet systems, including my sister's current system (an eMachines eTower T1090 with Windows XP and Works 2001), were replaced with an eMachines eTower T2742 with Windows XP Service Pack 1, and this particular system (then only being used by my Father) was replaced with an eMachines eTower T1090 with Windows XP and Works 2001 (the same one that belonged to my sister). By that point, the eTower 400ix was already heavily bloated down anyway.

It did make a short comeback back in September 2007 when it had to temporarily replace the eTower T1090 when the power supply stopped working (yet another story), that is, until the Maxtor 6.4 GB hard drive failed, and we had to have a friend of ours retrieve the more recent personal data that was being stored on it (the system itself was eventually replaced with a Dell OptiPlex Pentium 4 system from around 2002 with Windows 2000 Service Pack 4, by the way).

--------End of first story--------

There are plenty more where that came from, in relation to bad stories about eMachines and their (at least at the time) low quality systems, nearly all of which are much worse than this one. I'll see to it that I post more of them, just to share my nearly decade-long experience with that company and the constant problems that their systems had.

Consumer machines, particularly ones made by the large OEMs are generally [censored]. As you've noticed, they are built cheaply and don't hold up very long. Consumer machines have been [censored] for quite a while now, if anyone has used Packard Bell machines from the United States, they will know what I'm talking about.

I rad the title to this topic and immediately thought of my really old eMachines pc that ran windows 98, the thing sucked so much bloated [Censored] that it finally caught on fire in the middle of the night

Just reinstall Windows, that'll fix all the problems except the case. The first thing I tell people to do when they get a new computer is wipe and reinstall using retail disks (can still activate using the OEM key) and you loose the crapware they install. I personally have an Inspiron 530 that works as a server and my brother has a HP A6312p that also runs great (granted: Upgraded with GeForce 8800 GTS512).

The plastic issue isn't surprising and it's more than likely why very few custom cases have a door like that, it gets broken. After one year seems cheap, but then again, it's about quantity, not quality.

I recently re-installed Windows, Got the first 2 issues fixed already (2nd issue was fixed by restarting), The last issue i have will be fixed soon as I'll be replacing the front panel with a new one

Read what I said above about eMachines systems. It was already bad enough that we had those experiences with our eMachines eTower 400ix systems, but the next two systems that we had were even worse.

We also had some friends who owned an eMachines eTower system from around 2000, running Windows 98 Second Edition, and they continued using it right up to around 2005 or 2006 when the hard drive failed. And that wasn't the only time that I had seen components in an eMachines system fail unexpectedly either.

I've even heard about eTower 366ix/400ix systems that would turn themselves on without actually being powered on by the user (or as they said it, "systems that would turn themselves on in the middle of the night"), and as I even said above, our system had problems on arrival (later confirmed to be a bad keyboard after having been sent back).

And yes, I know about Packard Bell systems of that era (mid to late-1990s), and while they were generally physically durable (there were many cases of such systems surviving fires and floods/hurricanes), and even named "The toughest of the tough" by an April 1998 issue of FamilyPC, the truth of the matter is that even as durable as those systems may have been, they were not reliable. I knew one person who owned a Packard Bell system, and she said that she was having constant trouble with it, and was often having to take it to the shop to be repaired.

I also know of one case (which, ironically enough, was also reported by FamilyPC!) where someone (around 1997) purchased a Packard Bell Multimedia for his family members, with a Pentium 75 Mhz processor. Only after the tiny 1.2 GB hard drive crashed, however, did he read the "system credentials" sheet that came with his PC, stating that Packard Bell used "new and used serviceable parts" in their computers. And as the article itself said, "So in other words, his "new" PC wasn't new at all.".

Packard Bell, from what I heard, was fined heavily for this, and so in return, they replaced the person's processor with a 200 Mhz model, and Seagate (the original manufacturer of the failed hard drive) replaced his hard drive with a 6.4 GB model.

And finally, don't get me started on all of the horror stories I've heard about Patriot Computers and the Hot Wheels and Barbie PCs! They were always arriving late, and one guy even said that he purchased one for his two sons, only for the monitor cable not to have any screws on it, and that the monitor cable kept getting disconnected (seems like they got a screw loose on that one! )!

Not to backseat moderate or anything, but it seems that you accidentally quoted it wrong - I was the one who made the statement about the bad quality of eMachines systems, not Bender.

Well you get what you pay for and modern low end PCs are generally built cheap. Plus the hardware is low end so you can't expect performance to be that great especially when OEMs fill them with bloatware. First thing you have to do it wipe/reinstall on many new OEM systems these days to get rid of all the junk.

It wasn't always this way and it depends on what brand you are buying. My parents had an entry level Gateway tower from the late 90s. Back then the included software was actually somewhat useful, Encarta, MS Works, etc. That thing is built like a tank, ran for 10 years without any component failure and was finally retired because it was so obsolete. The tower was all metal and could easily support a person standing on top of it, because I tried it once. I don't think Gateway quality is that way anymore.

Especially since after purchasing eMachines, their systems were essentially the same as eMachines's systems anyway (from what I could tell, they moved to using eMachines's supplier, TriGem). Just look at the appearance of their systems afterwards, and you'll see that even the case design appeared to be largely the same, as well as the optical drives, so to me, that is quite enough proof that the later Gateway systems were nothing more than rebranded eMachines systems.

I have an AOpen system from around 1999 to early 2000. It was developed from a mass-manufactured line of systems from that time period that used AOpen components, and there were quite a lot of third party companies (such as Total Peripherals and even local computer shops) that more loosely assembled these systems from AOpen components, but with motherboards from other manufacturers (though obviously, my particular system used strictly AOpen components). And in general, these systems even shared the same case design for the entire line that was produced.

The system that I have is more than a decade old by now, and yet it still runs just fine. Of course, for a file server, it's pretty low end by today's specifications (K6-II at 450 Mhz and a pre-release build of Whistler that I installed to get past Windows XP's activation scheme), but my point here is that the unmistakably generic system has survived well over a decade without any issues, and yet even typical name brand systems (such as eMachines) have died within a few years of being used on a daily basis.

So it just goes to show you that big name brand is not always better. And this isn't the first time that a generic system has outlived a larger name brand system either.

Ok, Can a moderator please delete (not lock it but delete) this topic now that it's not needed anymore?
On second thought, It can stay

No.

This thread provides a home for legitimate discussion. There's no need to delete it.

Why delete this good discussion

Ontopic, if I ever buy a pc from any company, I install a clean copy of Windows on it instantly. I wont even boot the preinstalled mess when I turn on the computer for the first time.

My Dell Dimension 8300 runs to this day rather flawlessly. Well, the original hard drive died a slow and painful death, and the front USB connectors are located so weirdly they bent and broke by now, but other than that, you can easily use it today.

Granted, it did get upgraded on the way. The 256 MB (I think?) are now 3 GB, the Maxtor 80 GB hard drive (RIP) was replaced by an older Seagate 40 GB from 2001 (still runs today!), but other than that, it's still the same it was when I got it in 2004.

I've noticed the same trend with consumer grade desktops (as well as laptops). I've purchased machines from both HP and Dell and I've noticed that the business grade towers are of much better quality than their consumer ones; I've had an XPS desktop from Dell which had 2 motherboard failures (while the 2 Dell Precision towers from the same time period are working fine) and as for HP, I've had a Pavilion which has failed (motherboard, again - which I no longer own for that reason) while a friend's Z workstation has had no problems.

Truth if I ever heard it.
Today I did that on my friend's laptop, originally very slow, reinstalled it without all the bundled & installed junk now it's a beast that challenges my macbook pro in running w7 well.
Also today I skipped class to fix another friend's laptop (hp) which had a broken bit of plastic wind up in the only fan on the system, forcing the computer off.

Now comes my rant.
So I got home and my dad dropped off a Shuttle k45 that he's had chillin around for a while for me to do some development work. Moved a bunch of stuff around to set it up, only to find that the only thing that worked on it... was the fan (kinda funny as I just fixed a fan earlier in the day). No display or keyboard worked, did not complain with no memory installed, so I checked the internet and found that many of these machines suffered from failing capacitors, so I opened mine up to find that some capacitors were screwed. Lovely how the manufactures can shave off a few cents per unit, save a large bit of cash over time, by using cheap components which fail, in some cases, right after the warranty expires.
Feels like I've done nothing but fix cheaply built computers all day

Usually if it make no sounds (like beep codes or lights) its something of the sort; most modern systems have a microcontroller than will handle the pre-boot phase and will either give a beep code or some sort of code to indicate a processor is not installed/whatever (to hand off control of the system to the processor, most microcontrollers require the system to have memory, a working graphics card, a working RTC, and some other minor things I might not remember ).

My biggest pet peeve is the use of low-quality thermal compound that causes computers to overheat often. The first thing I do when I get a new computer/laptop is replace the thermal compound (sometimes I delay a little if I plan on replacing the CPU, but it always gets done in the end). The other thing that annoys me is when motherboards fail because its much harder to diagnose (processor vs. motherboard is sometimes hard to tell on low-end systems with very basic microcontrollers).

'Tis what I figured since it didn't complain with no memory installed, then after I looked into it and saw that people had trouble with the capacitors I checked em out and sure enough - there were a few that appear to be buggered. Luckily my dad has some connections for components back from the days when one could fix TVs without replacing entire boards so he can order in a few replacement (and higher quality, I might add) caps and solder em in for me, since I'm kinda out of funds at the moment and getting a new computer isn't exactly gonna happen soon.

Thing that angered me isn't so much my own case, just that many people who had this problem with that computer kinda got screwed over in that theirs only lasted like a year or so, I figure I'm lucky with that lasting a few years before goin' bad.
All in all, it just really sucks that some companies will do whatever it takes to make a dime, cause problems all over the place, and then not do much to solve the problem once its handed off to the consumer.

I get what you mean, but you should realize that those who complain are the minority... The people who have had a working laptop for 5 years normally don't go to a consumer review site where people complain. I'm not saying that the laptops are by any measure reliable, but you aren't necessarily lucky... I've had numerous consumer-grade laptops that have lasted much longer than the people that usually go to the internet to complain - a lot of computers fail due to user abuse, and I guess our computers last longer because either (or both) we're lucky or we take better care of them.

I think it'll be kind of hard to solder on new capacitors; the capacitors on laptops are much smaller (I'm sure you know this but just in case other people are reading this) and I've had difficulty in the past soldering them on. If you do get new capacitors and try anyways, I suggest you use Japanese capacitors, which are usually recognized as the best in the industry (as opposed to lower-quality Chinese ones).

I typically prefer business-grade computers (like Dell Latitudes, Precisions, Optiplexes, HP EliteBooks, Z Workstations, etc) versus the consumer grade because of the huge issue of motherboards failing - I rarely have processors, power supplies, etc. fail since they are standard in almost all products, but the biggest issue with consumer grade systems is the motherboard and casing (but casing is usually only cosmetic in a desktop).

The caps weren't on the laptop, rather on a smaller desktop, so I'm not too worried about that.
As for the review sites, obviously people with no problems won't go there, but the fact that people with lots of these machines have had numbers of them fail early in their lifespans doesn't paint that great of a picture of that specific model. One must also remember, however, that some people with problems will not complain, so unfortunately the true ratio of people who have had problems to those who didn't will not be known, all I know is that I'll probably be sticking to self-builds in the future

Yea some of them do suck, like HP somehow they always seem to die. Other times they have nice cases like some Dells and a few of the Sony Vaio cases,