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 PostPost subject: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:46 am 
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Hi,

I got a Apple Mac SE/30 with no OS installed on the HD. I don't have the original floppies disks. I downloaded the MAC OS 7.5.3 from the FTP and I was planning to create the disks to install the OS from my PC.

But these specific images on FTP, "Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'')", are on a format I couldn't figure out.
Does anyone knows how to read these ".image" files ?

Image

Tks !

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:05 am 
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.IMAGE files are not the MS-DOS image files you're used to.
Taking a look at the boot sectors of the images, the Disk Tools images have an "LK" boot sector but all the others have blank boot sectors, filled with zeros. But at offset 0x400 of these 00 boot sector images you can see "BD" and then the image's name. Replacing the image's boot sector with IHC will not work, and WinImage won't touch them. Nor will renaming the image's extension to IMG, IMA, or any other image extension that WinImage can open.
They are actually Apple Disk Copy image files. You need to copy them to a physical floppy disk.

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Last edited by DiskingRound on Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:29 am 
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They're Apple Disk Copy images, you need to write them to a disk on real hardware.


Also, for the SE/30… I'd recommend 6.0.8 or 7.0.1/7.1

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:32 am 
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DiskingRound wrote:
.IMAGE files are not normal MS-DOS image files.


What the? Are you for real? There are more operating systems in existence than MS-DOS and Windows.

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Taking a look at the boot sectors of the images, the Disk Tools images have an "LK" boot sector but all the others have blank boot sectors, filled with zeros. But at offset 0x400 of these 00 boot sector images you can see "BD" and then the image's name. Replacing the image's boot sector with IHC will not work


duh. Did you really think x86 code will work on a Motorola 68000? Think before you post, Brandon.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:05 am 
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Try following my guide: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29038

Check the section on writing floppies.

If this doesn't work, these might be odd Disk Copy images. You'll need to copy them to a disk image created in HFVExplorer, load said disk image up in a SheepShaver / Mini vMac environment, and work with the disk images using a copy of Disk Copy, for Mac OS 7 / 8.

If you have a real Macintosh, running System 7 or greater (I believe OS X can handle Disk Copy images, probably not the latest version unfortunately), you can use Disk Copy to write them to a real floppy.

But as the other users have said, a SE/30 would be better off using System 7.0.x / 7.1 or System 6.0.8. (A SE/30 is one of the few Macs which could run A/UX, too!)

If you need any additional assistance, feel free to PM me.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:34 pm 
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Thank You all. The collective wisdom is great !! I learned a lot with the info you all posted above.
Now I know the .IMAGE files are DiskCopy images, I'm trying to read the .IMAGE files I got from BA FTP file Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') on a PC ( Win8.1) and create the floppy disks on this PC using a USB floppy drive.

What I learned until now (with your help) :

a. .IMAGE are Apple Disk Copy image files. This is the info I was looking for to start my tests.
b. The recommend MAC OS for a SE/30 is versions 6.0.8 or 7.0.1/7.1 ( although it also run 7.5.3 ).
c. I didn't know, but you can also run the A/UX on a MAC SE/30 ( More info here ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/UX. I will try this later.
d. Following Patrick's guide , I found we can use HFVExplorer to manipulate some apple images on PC. Unfortunately we can't manipulate .IMAGE files with HIFVExplorer
e. Based on the info found on Patrick's guide and trying to find his other guide "Writing images using DiskCopy" I found another piece of good info : floptool from MESS (viewtopic.php?f=72&t=28892&p=345287&hilit=Writing+images+using+DiskCopy#p345287) .
f. Floptool might be able convert a DiskCopy 4.2 .IMAGE file to a .IMG file. ( and then use the WINIMAGE to save it to a floppy disk - it is explained here : http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpag ... uters/1713 )
g. I tried to use the floptool but it did not worked as expected. floptool can't read the .IMAGE flie. May be because it is not a CopyDisk 4.2 image ( probably it is a CopyDisk 6.X)
h. I found another utility that seems to convert the files I need, the "XGS utility Imgutnew.exe", but it does not work on win64. I will need to do it on another PC with a XP. I will do it later
i. I tried OmniFlop to read the image and save it to floppy. No success as I'm using a USB floppy. I will need to do it on another PC with a internal floppy disk .I will do it later

So, does anyone knows how to convert the .IMAGE to a .img that can be loaded by WinImage ?

Of course, my main objective is to setup my MAC SE/30, but NOW I would like to know if I can create the installs disk from a CopyDisk image using only a PC with a USB floppy drive. The easy path is download the files from internet converted/dumped already in .img format. But why to take the easy path, huh ? :P ( actually I did a test, see below the pictures :P )

Any help is appreciated.

Here are the pictures of my SE/30 running a 7.0.1 install disk created by Winimage using a .img I downloaded. ( NOT the .IMAGE from BA FTP )

Image

Image

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Last edited by BzzBR on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:24 pm 
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Actually, the image files in that archive are damaged. They are compressed DiskCopy 6.x files, however they have been stripped of their resource forks which renders this Macintosh file type useless. At least I am not aware of any tools that can decode this format without the resource fork.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:18 am 
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JustZisGuy wrote:
Actually, the image files in that archive are damaged. They are compressed DiskCopy 6.x files, however they have been stripped of their resource forks which renders this Macintosh file type useless. At least I am not aware of any tools that can decode this format without the resource fork.


We should probably, then, grab the 7.5.3 images off of Apple's FTP.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:24 am 
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It's easy to recreate the resource forks as you only need a basic DiskCopy fork that makes the app detect the file as a DC image... I've done it several times before using BasiliskII.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:46 pm 
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mrpijey wrote:
It's easy to recreate the resource forks as you only need a basic DiskCopy fork that makes the app detect the file as a DC image... I've done it several times before using BasiliskII.

Is there some specific tool or trick you used for this? I've tried exactly this a while back and had zero luck. At least with compressed Diskcopy 6/NDIF files like these. (Diskcopy 4.2 or uncompressed files on the other hand, don't need anything special in the resource fork)


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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:23 am 
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I would also like to know how you did this trick as well.

As for the Mac OS 7.6 floppy images; they seem to be in bin format, are they also stripped DiskCopy images aswell? I couldn't get them to work in Basilisk II.

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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:31 pm 
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BzzBR wrote:
So, does anyone knows how to convert the .IMAGE to a .img that can be loaded by WinImage ?

Of course, my main objective is to setup my MAC SE/30, but NOW I would like to know if I can create the installs disk from a CopyDisk image using only a PC with a USB floppy drive. The easy path is download the files from internet converted/dumped already in .img format. But why to take the easy path, huh ? :P ( actually I did a test, see below the pictures :P )


About your question... Is impossible, sorry. PC/DOS on-disk format is very different from Mac one. WinImage was designed with PC/DOS format in mind and it will refuse to load anything even a little different. I'm not aware that WinImage can do such conversions, at least no directly.

Seems that the drive in your SE/30 supports PC 1.44 media... Otherwise you could never create the disks that you already have with your USB floppy, as these devices (and any PC floppy in general) will not support any of the Apple specific formatted media. Your best bet would be take these converted images that you already have, create the floppies and and install them in your machine.

PD: If you want the best experience with your reconstructed SE/30, would be also good spend a few buck in this little device and forget the floppies forever and ever.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:35 pm 
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This probably doesn't apply to the current discussion as I understand you are asking about what you can do with a PC to manipulate Mac images, but for the record, an .image file (Disk Copy 4.2 format) can be converted into an .img file (Disk Copy 6.3 format) if you have a Mac capable of running DiskCopy 6.3 (or similar emulator). DiskCopy 6.3 runs on System 7-9. You mount your .image file on the desktop, and then use DC 6.3 to save an .img of the mounted disk.

System 7 might work best because if your .image is old enough to be in a format that later system software has difficulty mounting (e.g. 400K disks), you won't be able to mount the image to save it in the newer format.

It took me a while when I first started messing around with my old macs to understand what the difference was between .image and .img files. Hope this helps someone!


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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:45 pm 
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Quote:
they seem to be in bin format, are they also stripped DiskCopy images aswell


Humble apologies if you already know this and I'm misunderstanding your question, but .bin is a compressed format (like .sit, .hqx, etc). Did you expand with Stuffit or the like inside Basilisk before trying to mount them?

Normally, being inside any kind of archive will protect files against damage to the resource forks.

I don't have FTP access yet (waiting in hope), so I can't get at the images on the FTP to test for possible corruption. With any luck I can help more with that later.


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 PostPost subject: Re: Apple Mac OS 7.5.3 [English] (3.5'') - ".image" files        Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:22 am 
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JustZisGuy wrote:
Actually, the image files in that archive are damaged. They are compressed DiskCopy 6.x files, however they have been stripped of their resource forks which renders this Macintosh file type useless. At least I am not aware of any tools that can decode this format without the resource fork.

It's easier to use HFVExplorer in windows for the image and then add the forks there and then burn it onto a floppy! See if this helps!
-Po Lu


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